TBD

TBD on Ning

 It's way too soon to celebrate. Every legislator who voted for it is hoping and praying that he/she was right. I'm hoping and praying they were right too.

 

Only time will tell.

Tags: premature-celebration

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That is a good point WOB. On this day we will begin to get liberty from the tranny of the insurance industry and be able to live our lives free from free of being sick and unable to pay for it. Very fitting for such an anniversary. Good job of pointing that out.
Powergirl wrote: "May be, just may be if all the money thrown in wars for killing were invested in the health care and education we wouldn't be worry about how to pay for it now, would we?"

Funny how few people mention this in their arguments. Kudos, PG.
Since the beginning of time wars have been waged over one thing...religion. Now wars are fought not only to inflict certain religious beliefs on others but for money as well. Think about it....wars make money, peace doesn't.
This health care bill is a start.....something we've never had before because a conservative congress wouldn't allow it. Course the "haves" will continue to fight it because they're afraid it may take something out of their pockets.
I am pretty sure that if I made $200,000 a year I would not begrudge 3% to help those less fortunate than me. Of course I don't make $200,000 so I can't say for sure. It might change me.
You may not mind, nor would I, but there are others who are much more greedy than us. In fact you would probably find the ones who have the most would be the least likely to want to part with any of it...unless of course it buys them liquor and whores...
Of course I don't make $200,000 so I can't say for sure. It might change

The problem is, of course, that this isn't all of it. When the folks like you and me start getting more and more taken out of their paycheck, and cost of medical care doesn't abate, you might change your tune.

For instance, part of the so-called savings, implicit in the bill, comes from reduction/limiting of payment rates to doctors. The President has already stated that this wil be waived next year (and, of course, in the years afterwards when the support of the medical industry is needed at election time)

I also suspect that that ideas that the law of unintended consequences will take over; for instance, mandatory coverage for people with pre-existing conditions sounds like a fair and equitable deal, doesn't it? But since these people are at guaranteed greater risk than the population in general, everyone's premium is going to rise to adjust for taking on this additional risk. This is how insurance works. So be prepared. (I'm not saying this is a bad thing but this is what often happens when good intentions trump logic)

As I said, I am not against the principle of health care reform. Sadly, I think the bill does absolutely nothing to attack the root causes of the rapid increase in medical costs but merely shifts the burden (and increases the costs). You will forgive me but I am also highly skeptical of a bill that requires the total payoff of two complete states, not to mention a host of lesser payoffs, in order to get it passed (and that, barely)
"...But since these people are at guaranteed greater risk than the population in general, everyone's premium is going to rise to adjust for taking on this additional risk. This is how insurance works. So be prepared..."

Well said.

Insurance is intended to spread risk, not subsidize a certainty. I don't mind driving down a freeway with people who might swerve into my lane: we all take that risk every day. However, I would not get on a freeway where I knew there was a guy going 100 MPH the wrong way in my lane.

Yet our lawmakers think nothing of forcing me into an insurance pool with people who are already sick. Their premiums are not going to cover their treatment, so guess who pays for it?

Before you say I'm heartless, how would you feel if United Appeal collected their donations at the point of a gun? The folks they help would still need the help, right? What's the difference whether you want to give or not? Those people need your money. I'm serious, they are truly needy. I know they are, because I volunteer to help many of them each year with time and money. If you don't make a donation, why shouldn't the rest of us force you to do so?

I hope I'm getting my point across: charity comes from within each one of us. We must each answer the call to help our fellow human beings in the way that is best for us. No government has the moral right to dictate the form that kindness should take.

If you object that some would not help others at all, I can only say you are right. Some people steal cars, but that does not give the government the right to put ankle bracelets on the rest of us.

The only people who can morally claim my money for their illness are those who contracted illnesses before they were old enough to buy insurance for themselves. Once you're an adult, you should have enough sense to put insurance at the top of your priorities.

Think about it: the stakes are extremely high. Who in their right mind would bet their life or something close to it (like a poverty-stricken existence) that they would not get sick or hurt until right before they died? Who?

The first thing I did when I got out of the service was buy insurance. I did not buy a car or a house or even a new refrigerator. I bought insurance, because it was the right thing to do for my family.

Enjoy life, but don't ignore the risks it poses.
I have no problems with medical costs. My perscription co pay is normally $9 every three months. Why? Because I was lucky enough to have chosen the military for a career. When I made that choice I was young enough, and the health system had not yet become the money grubbing system that exists in this country today. I did not choose to serve my country for health care. Health care was something that you got when you needed it. And since all the hospitals in my area were owned by the local governments, they took in anybody in need. So, I chose the military because it was a steady job that was exciting and offered travel, education and many other benifits. Health care was way down on my list because I had never known anyone who needed it who could not afford it. Niave? sure. Now, I Know many. What happened? I'll let you answer that. But, I will say that if you have adiquate health care coverage, its because you are lucky, not smart. And I can not understand why people would rather gamble that they would never need medical care beyond what their insurance provides, than paying a little more taxes for coverage. Why should we be dependent on the insurance industry? Why not divert the money that goes into insurance into a government system that is not dependent on profit in order to provide medical care. This would free all of us up to get on with our lives, I know that government run systems are a pain in the ass to deal with, but I would rather battle with them than an insurance company that can say that they are sorry, but my illness is not covered or some other reason why all the money I have paid in doesn't cover my situation.
My personal feeling is that anyone who believes that capitalisim provides better health care should be drowned like an unwanted puppy. but, that is just my back woods, hick, uninformed opinion.
"...And I can not understand why people would rather gamble that they would never need medical care beyond what their insurance provides, than paying a little more taxes for coverage. ..."

Every insurance policy I have ever had included a "stop-loss" provision, that is, once I had paid a certain amount out of pocket, all the rest of my care was paid 100% by the insurance. It cost me a tad bit more, but it was obvious to me that it was well worth it. This is a very well-known and easily obtained feature of health insurance, especially if you buy it when you are young and healthy. If you don't buy it then, we are back to Personal Responsibility.

"...Why should we be dependent on the insurance industry? Why not divert the money that goes into insurance into a government system that is not dependent on profit in order to provide medical care. This would free all of us up to get on with our lives..."

We should depend on the insurance industry because it shields us from the risk of ruin as a result of illness, accident and other causes. If we all had to bear that risk individually, it would tie up almost all investment capital in the USA.

The government cannot operate health care at a loss forever. It is one thing to raise an army, fight fires and educate children with tax money. It is another to introduce the inefficiency of additional government paperwork and marginally-motivated public employees into a system that has provided some of the best care in the world to people for two hundred years.

In the economic sense, that is money spent on the public good. We all benefit from a free country, quenched fires and an educated population. Those things are to the citizenry in public life what dividends are to shareholders in private life. The same is not true for health care, except in the very medically limited sense of obvious health issues like contagious disease control, advanced research and the like.

The "pain in the ass" nature of a public system will include exclusions too, I guarantee it. It will be forced to do so if it is to survive. Allocation of resources and all that, you know.

Plus, don't forget that insurance companies invest money in companies that invent new things to meet new challenges every day. If the government takes over, that well of investment funds dries up. Where's the money going to come from to fuel more innovation?
Markets need capital. All countries - regardless of their form of government - need markets. Period.

In the economic sense, we as a country are not irreparably harmed by the inevitable death of any one particular person.

Please do not get me wrong: as a personal matter, the lives of my loved ones are precious to me. That is why I pay for my own insurance. I am not saying that humans are worthless.

I am saying that the economic result of goverment health care will be far more collective harm to everyone in the USA than we are ready to accept. The last thing we need in a recession is for even more capital funding to vanish overnight. Talk about slow death...

By the way, if you're going to take me out back and drown me, please do it while I still have my private life insurance. My children will be sorry to see me go, but a year on the beach will ease their pain.
Dallas , you are a reasonable and responsible person and shouldn't be punished for the lack of foresight of others. However consider my situation where I was forced to leave my home and marriage by the police because of domestic violence with 4 small kids and not even ten bucks in my pocket . "Mr Wonderful" had a drug problem. Eventually the abuse caught up with me and I became seriously ill, however dependant on expensive meds I recovered to the point where I could work. PROBLEM >>>do the right thing and go to work and loose ability to pay for life sustaining meds that make it possible to work or just try to be a productive healthy individual on disability. I know big brass ones for outing this. I was even told by different mental health peeps that they kept me on the disabled list to ensure that I would recieve medication and support. PTSD is a life threatening illness if it progresses to the point of clinical depression. The prospect of going without meds is almost paralyzing. And the stigma of not working in the good old American way isn't much fun either. I have yet to read the bill, I'm taking care of my possibly terminally ill husband at the moment who has VA coverage, the doctor says that it's due to agent orange so the VA will probably pick up my health care. Eventually ...........if he ever gets the service related comp. They are certainly swamped with claims at the moment. And I filled out the application to volunteer there but wasn't accepted. I guess I will have to try again when things aren't so hectic around here. The way I see it now is that I am working but the pay leaves much to be desired. My husband is 100% disabled now and needs help with quite a bit around the house.
Time will tell the story.
Sara, I am unsure why you are feeling less secure about the country. Could you explain? I know I too feel less secure about the future of this country than I have at any time in my life. But it is because of the actions of our politicians. Not because the health care bill passed. I understand Dallas position and arguments against it. I just don't agree with him. That has nothing to do with my personal feelings toward him. Most of my friends disagree with me about the health care bill, and many other things in the current political environment. I guess the reason I am worried about the future is that the fact that we disagree on things like health care and toll roads, and public transportation and such is causing severe strains in many of my friendships. I find it hypocritical that retired military people who currently have the best medical insurance in the world, and most use it, will rail against government provided health care. If it is so bad why don't they go buy health insurance and deal with a HMO? Why isn't Medicare allowed to have competitive bids for perscription drugs? And on and on. If you look a Houston Texas you will see two skylines of almost equal size.
One of those is composed of the medical center. I think that says a lot about how much money is sloshing around in the medical profession. My personal opinion, and it is just that, an opinion, is that some things are to important to the country to allow capitalism and the survival of the strongest to dictate how it is managed. I have a son who has epileptic sezures, my grand daughter was born profoundly deaf. My son spends over $800 a month on medical insurance and other medical requirements. Luckly, he is very intelligent and has a job that provides him with almost enough money to handle that. He is a senior technition who works with the "Brain Boxes" on UAV's. But if he should lose employment he probably would be unemployable with the medical baggage. This is the type of situation that we have the power to correct. Why, as a nation do we want to continue with the current medical system?

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