Treason in America

[Just-a-Writer]

I've been thinking about this since seeing the "Second Revolution" flag on television and online. Couple a new flag with dissidents waving guns at peaceful meetings, and you have acts of treason. These are folks threatening to "over throw" the current government.

Our leaders need to step up and make it clear that they are where they are because we the people of the United States of America voted them into their current positions. We the people, the silent majority, also need to step up and tell them loud and clear, "We voted in a civilized, organized manner, and we will NOT tolerate the threats of violence from a loud, hateful group of traitors."

Their justifications always begin with "what you did to Bush." Well, let's look at it. When the Congressional Democrats disagreed with the speech Bush gave them, they boo'ed... ONCE. Did they shout out "You lie!" at him? NO. Did they carry signs or bills in to wave for the cameras? NO Did they get up and storm out? NO

Thousands of people refused to let their kids to go school if they had to listen to the president's back to school speech. Did we ever deny Bush a voice in our public schools? NEVER.

Churches rallying around with "Who Would Jesus Hate?" signs meant to reference that Jesus would hate Obama. Did we ever make the prideful declaration that the Son of God would surely hate President Bush? NO WAY.

Thousands of people insist that President Obama is the Antichrist. And they are serious! Did we organize the less educated into believing such a nonsensical thing? NO.

Thousands of people might sound like a very large number, but one must remember: there are 600 million people in America. That makes these vocal thousands a very small minority.

These same thousands feel as they are the ones doing God's work. They consider themselves the saviors of souls and the rightful heirs to this nation. What they don't accept is that their behavior is actually contradictory to God's teachings, to Jesus' desires. (Proverbs 6:16-19)

Six things there are which the Lord hates, and the seventh His soul detests:

1) Haughty eyes, showing pride in your eyes as you scorn others.

2) A lying tongue, such as the outlandish claims made by Limbaugh, Beck, Wilson, and all of the others that have "bore false witness against" the President and regarding what is and isn't in any of the proposed bills.

3) Hands that shed innocent blood, the war in Iraq, every crazed gunman we've seen here in America. People reacting violently to the changes they aren't ready to accept.

4) A heart that devises wicked schemes, such as hoping that Obama fails, or those who only want to prevent President Obama from doing anything positive for fear a Democrat will get credit.

5) Feet that are swift... to rush into mischief, such as the conservative activists that set up 4 ACORN workers and attempted to set up many, many more.

6) A deceitful witness that utters lies, Limbaugh, Beck, Wilson...

and THE BIGGEST, 7) He who sows discord among brothers.

Liberal Americans have never denied obvious evidence that the elected president was in fact a natural born citizen, they have never tried to block legislation that was sorely needed, and they have most certainly never threatened to over throw the government.

They, WE, have accepted, even though it was grudgingly, that we lost elections. We made plans, but only to better educate voters by the next election. We were called traitors, but we never engaged in traitorous acts, such as creating a new flag of plotting an coo.

My message now to the ultra conservatives out there with blood in their eyes and revolt in their hearts is this: We the People of the United States of America, in an attempt to form a more perfect union, will stand and defend the nation we have worked so hard to create.

[Just-a-Writer]

I've read some of the stuff over at WTP. I don't join because responding to some of that vile stuff would make me sound like them. There are no words to describe the level of disgust some of those posts bring me to. If you find this group to be more vile than that one, it is obviously the eye of the beholder. From my point of view, the difference is as glaring as the difference between the Wall Street Journal and the National Enquirer. And I've voted Republican just as often as I've voted Democrat. But who knows, maybe I've become a screaming liberal in the past couple of years.

[Mark Mentzer]

Judi,

We're not hate mongering. We're discussing our point of view as fellow left wingers. You being a non left winger are spewing hatred here. Why don't you just read the posts and keep your opinions to yourself especially if you are going to insult me and some of the other wonderful members of this groups. Grace Linda, myself and Vernon do not see everything from a race point of view. We only see it that way when it's so. And, as a good friend of jacquin, I can say that she doesn't hate white people or men. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS SPREADING HATRED AND IF YOU CONTINUE I'LL BAN YOU FROM THE DISCUSSIONS! This group is for like-minded leftist thinkers to discuss the issues from our point of view. You are welcome to read our posts and contribute but leave the personal stuff out of it or I'll ban you.

[Judi]

There is no need to ban me, as I will willingly leave. I'm sorry you feel as you do, but I see how it is. Bye.

[John Turberville]

"Senator Jim DeMint, a Republican from South Carolina, shows no concern with reforming health care, in any manner, only in taking down President Obama. A quote:

"If we're able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo," Mr. DeMint told conservative activists on a conference call in July. "It will break him."

We MUST "play fair" and respectfully when a NEOCON is in charge. But, apparently,
the reverse doesnt hold true. It's the same double standard that allows a "morality advocate" to cheat on his wife or play with boys. The behavior of these people is dispicable.

[Just-a-Writer]

You're right, John, that does seem to be the irony. I would love an open, honest discussion. A discussion that doesn't include words like 'nazi', 'socialism', 'communism', or 'brain washing'. A discussion that includes facts, statistics, the successes and failures of existing models.

In 1994 I sat on the sidelines during all of the fuss. I figured they had to do SOMETHING, they couldn't just leave us like this. I'm not going to sit by and simply watch them blow it again. I write and call my congressmen, I write and call the congressmen and women of other states. I write the White House.

Civilized discussions help us, the constituents, come up with ideas to share with our leaders. I hope that if enough of us contact them often enough then some of the ideas might get through. But when faced with arguments that involve death panels, socialism, nazis, and brain washing the discussion starts WAY behind the starting line.

[John Turberville]

"A discussion that doesn't include words like 'nazi', 'socialism', 'communism', or 'brain washing'. A discussion that includes facts, statistics, the successes and failures of existing models."

I am not pleased with the way this sort of behavior is being tolerated. It is my personal behavior to treat everyone I meet civilly and try to avoid conflict. But, if they choose to attack and fight dirty, I do not hesitate to use every dirty trick available to kick their butts.It's time to fight back....circle the wagons and fight back.

[Judi]

Using words like NEOCON, John, is neither friendly, nor does it lend itself to mending fences with those with whom you hold in so much disdain. I don't like to even work with someone whose every other sentence contains some kind of slur against "them". I think most of us would agree that cheating on one's spouse is "despicable", and I don't know one person who has not been a hypocrite at one time or another in their lives. I doubt that you were quite that outraged when Clinton was unfaithful to Hillary, but you almost seem to freak out when it's a NEOCON! Yes, I realize the hypocrisy of it all is your main point. It just gets old, you know? "He who is without sin, ...." There's one thing knowing the right thing to do and espousing that belief, quite another to live a perfect public and private life in front of the citizens that are always looking for a misstep so they may say, "see there!".

Like I've said, it's all of us using those "hot button" words with each other that seems to break down communications.

[Just-a-Writer]

It isn't merely hypocrisy. It's trying to use that hypocrisy to manipulate others. When people like Stanford use their moral superiority to try to change laws (abortion, prayer in school, etc) but then we find out that their moral superiority is all smoke and mirrors.

It's a compounding matter. A cheating husband is sad, a self-righteous cheating husband is disdainful, and a political-manipulating, self-righteous, cheating husband is a hypocrite and worthy of loathing from the public.

Why? Because he clearly picks and chooses through the sins, forgiving himself (as long as he isn't caught) for the ones he wants to violate while trying to enforce others through the laws of the land.

I've known cheaters, and I've known Christian cheaters. But at the end of the day they aren't trying to push mandates on anybody.

[John Turberville]

"Using words like NEOCON, John, is neither friendly, nor does it lend itself to mending fences with those with whom you hold in so much disdain"

The NEOCON philosophy is REAL and is distinctly different from the Republican political philosophy of say Eisenhower for example.

http://www.deism.com/neoconsbible.htm

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/001679.html
[An important insight into what makes the neocons tick: they are fixated on the economy because they view democracy as having an inherent tendency toward breakdown that can only be held in check by continual growth. This analysis helps explain why they sometimes seem to treat the economy as a god, letting it supplant all other values. Thus in various symposia in Commentary in the ‘80s and ‘90s on the general question of how America was doing, the keynote would be that America was doing fabulously well--because the economy was doing fabulously well. Expressions of concern about America’s downward cultural and moral slide often sounded like obligatory pieties.]

[In any case, the neoconservatives are so set on aggressively spreading democracy, with its continual upheavals of the old order, that they see continual economic growth as the only way to prevent the class conflict that results from all that upheaval. In other words, the instability they worry about is in part a product of the democratism which they themselves aggressively promote. If America had been content to change less rapidly—say, through much less immigration—then there would be less concern about the need to avoid the kind of leftist egalitarian politics that Kristol worries about in the next paragraph. Of course, the neocons would argue that the continued mass immigration is necessary to keep pumping up the economy and thus avoiding class conflict. But even if that were true in the short run, which I doubt, in the long run the immigration is creating infinitely more class and social conflict than we otherwise would have had.]

[P.A.]

Judi are you not violating Matthew 7:1 in this very post?
I would also suggest that you take a close look at Matthew 7:5

[Judi]

No, in answer to your question.

[P.A.]

I beg to differ.

I also believe we should be very careful about throwing around the word treason. Treason is the only crime defined in the Constitution. Article III section 3 says, "treason against the United States shall consist only of making war against the United States or adhereing to their enemies. Both sides in political debates like to throw the word around, most not knowing what it really means.