capitalism or socialism ??

[frenchy]

just a thought thats been goin around in my head lately and thought i'd share it .. there seems to be a lot of people who don't like the word socialism .. and to live in the usa where capitalism rules its an even dirtier word .. and i wonder why that is .. i've always said the true measure of any great society is how well they treat the least among them .. and yet a lot of people think that if you have any kind of social net to break the less fortunates fall you're not helpin them but enablin them .. to some degree they may be right .. a lot of people want to think if you want it bad enough you'll work for it yourself .. if thats a brand new flashy car or the house on the hill that costs 3.2 mill i'd have to agree .. but what about basic human needs ?? such as just some kind of roof over your head , basic transportation to a job of some sort .. an education , clothes , food thats actually nutricious .. basic stuff that some take for granted ..

i see where cyprus wants to take like 9% out of everyones bank account because they're havin some serious money troubles .. and it will hit the really rich harder because after all they have more money so they'll pay more .. and of course they all wanna flee the country with their money .. but it makes me think .. we live in a structured society and that takes money to keep it runnin .. schools , hospitals , police , firemen , who pays for all that ?? if you live in that country shouldn't you ?? if you earn more shouldn't you pay a little more for the privilige of livin there and gettin those services ?? i mean what if they couldn't pay the police and firemen and all them things and you were bein robbed and called for help and the answer was well we had to let the police go because we couldn't pay them .. and the person who was callin was sayin i know .. the police are the ones that are robbin me .. 

now could that happen here ?? who knows ?? maybe? maybe not?? but does anyone really wanna push the issue to find out ?? i think capitalism only works if everyone gets to share the spoils .. such as gm has a banner year and makes record profits due to hard work and good execution .. and then you see the ceo gets a 5 million dollar bonus .. and the workers get a turkey at thanksgivin .. seem about right ?? since the 70's the average pay in dollar amounts and actual worth has declined for the american worker every year but has gone up for the people at the top by as much as 300% .. anybody think this is fair ?? 

don't get me wrong here i'm not sayin that if you're down on your luck the guberment should put you up in the ritz.. there are a lot of things that can be fine tuned a bit better .. but socialism is not a bad thing in my mind .. what do you guys think?? be nice now .. no pushin no shovin and no sniffin hineys ..  

[AmerikinWmn]

From what I'm told, there was a program here during and right after the Great Depression where you worked for the city/county in exchange for food etc. I guess they got a certain amount of money to help pay other things too, but anyway, the point is they WORKED FOR IT, it wasn't a hand out. Mind you, I don't have a problem with people who have legitimate excuses not having to earn their keep. Then again, can't some of them do SOMETHING that is helpful to the whole community, like volunteer to read to kids at schools, that kind of thing? 

I guess I lean more towards socialism than capitalism but I think making everyone handover 6% of their income, with little or no deductions, would put a whale of a dent in our country's debt and be a lot fairer than some of us paying 26% and the richest paying no where near that due to all those special loop holes they dug for themselves. I think most of us could live with that 6% just fine.

As for all those rich guys like Bill Gates - he's decided to be the Carnegie of our generation but I find it disheartening that much of his money isn't helping out here, it's helping out overseas. Don't get me wrong, I don't like to see any kid anywhere do without anything, but if you're from here seems to me you should have a little loyalty. What's the saying? Charity begins at home? 

[frenchy]

yeah i thought of that too aw.. i guess he feels that he has more control over how his money is spent overseas than here .. and as bad as it gets here i think our gubment does a better job than most .. so even tho i agree that charity should start at home , somebody has to help the people in them far off countries . might as well be the richest man in the freakin world .. probably should make him president .. he damm near owns the country .. might as well let em run it too.. 

[frenchy]

i'm still lottsa fun kathy .. i just didn't want this to get ugly thats all .. i love it when people can actually speak their mind and if someone don't agree they can actually still talk and not wanna kill each other .. so far so good tho .. for th most part most of us are in some form of agreement .. toal socialism is bad and so is total capitalism .. i guess we need a term we can coin for people who are socialistic capitalists .. cause thats too freakin hard to say all the time .. socaps or capso's  .. i dunno .. any suggestions ?? 

[P.A.]

An old saying, but true.
"Capitalism is great economic system as long as you have a little socialism to pull it out of the ditch now and then."

[frenchy]

i gotta agree p.a. ..kinda like love and marriage .. you can't have one without the other .. 

[blithe spirit]

I very much lean left in the socialist vs capitalism discussion. I Get up on my high horse much quicker when I read about corporate welfare and the income tax structure and the breaks companies get from local governments. Far too many businesses are not good citizens. The folks that are taking advantage of government programs don't bother me nearly as much as multimillion dollar companies who get bail outs and tax breaks. 

And the inflammatory rhetoric...who knew I was a Union thug because I thought the government should honor their commitments just like I have.

I remember way back in the 70's I had a very liberal political science professor who told the class the Republican Party was the party of the rich....and if you weren't wealthy you were voting against you own interests and basic survival if you voted Republican....at the time it didn't ring true to me...but in last few years....I'm thinking he had a point.

The pendulum has swung way too far in favor of capitalists protections. It needs alot of correction.

[crestofwaves]

I just watched a documentary, Winter something something, and it tracked four families who lost their jobs, their homes, their fignity.  All were hard working people who could not find new jobs that paid the same, or could not find new jobs at all.  A point was made.  When companies pay people minimum wage, their profits soar, but we, the tax payers are left subsidizing their workers who can't possibly live on part time or minimum wage pay.

My poor daughter who works at Home Depot, which used to be the place to work for people who liked retail, has just had her hours cut to no more than 25 per week.  It's a new policiy.  Hire lots of part time people and give them no more than 25 hours per week. There are no more full time hires, and part timers are no longer allowed to fill a slot if a full timer leaves.  Do you know the profits for Home Depot in NJ because of all the storms we had?  HIGH!!! 

 

Really, without government help in these hard times, how are people supposed to live?  My daughter has my help, and that's another reason I agreed to go back to work.  Bleh!

[blithe spirit]

I've been watching a bill moyers program heres a link for a 30 min preview...its on pbs still...or you can do a itunes podcast.

really good program..."What has Capitalism Done for Us Lately?"

http://billmoyers.com/episode/preview-what-has-capitalism-done-for-...

[ProblemAgain]

and did you know Bain Capital has a big piece of Home Depot?...thanks mitt....

[Shadowman]

But Home Depot is so generous. After all they paid CEO Bob Nardelli $210 million for not working there anymore back in 2007 or so.

[ProblemAgain]

so they had to come up with that money from somewhere....how bout employee contributions...involuntary, of course

[Lifesighs]

Thanks for letting me know, I'll do my shopping at ACE hardware or for bigger things the local lumber store a mile away. I just visited Home Depot to get a sealer for my new plaster fireplace, I wanted something that could take high heat, the high school boy (the only person behind the counter) had no clue what I was talking about. He worked in the paint dept.