Entitlement programs

[Saltie]

Without taking a position on entitlement programs I think that we can all agree that all of these programs are a huge part of our budget and growing. What can we do about it? Do you think we have to do anything or do we just try and find the funds to keep them going in their present state.

One example of a program that has been growing exponentialy is the "war on poverty"  Back in 1964 Lyndon Johnson launched the war on poverty. Since the we have spent over $16 trillion on the war, with very little results. 47,791,996 people were on the  food stamp program in the month of December 2012. The largest number ever.

By 2008 there were over 1800 federaly subsidized programs and then we passed the affordable health care law. So the question is do we need all these programs. If so how do we pay for them?

[Ioruach]

I have an even more fundamental question, one that could stand as the starting point in any such discussion.  That is, how should any rich, civilized country address the issue of poverty within its borders? 

[P.A.]

Well according to most republicans, it is their own fault and nothing should be done to help them.

[Saltie]

Great question. We've been waging a war on poverty for over 40 years and how do you think we're doing?

[LoveLife&Laughter]

SH is right.  The Republicans have been and are doing everything they can to subsidize the rich at the expense of the war on poverty.

[Saltie]

Here's a list of some 1600 programs

http://funding-programs.idilogic.aidpage.com/

[LoveLife&Laughter]

1890?  Something more recent is the program to invade Iraq to get rid of their nuclear weapons and the program to stop minorities from voting.

[Woody Woods]

This is a letter from an irate senior citizens. Not sure how true it is.....but I can see many people feeling this way...lol.

Alan Simpson, the Senator from Wyoming calls senior citizens the Greediest
Generation as he compared "Social Security " to a Milk Cow with 310 million
teats.

Here's a response in a letter from PATTY MYERS in Montana ... I think she is
a little ticked off! She also tells it like it is!


"Hey Alan, let's get a few things straight!!!!!

1. As a career politician, you have been on the public dole (tit) for FIFTY
YEARS.

2. I have been paying Social Security taxes for 48 YEARS (since I was 15
years old. I am now 63).

3. My Social Security payments, and those of millions of other Americans,
were safely tucked away in an interest bearing account for decades until you
political pukes decided to raid the account and give OUR money to a bunch of
zero losers in return for votes, thus bankrupting the system and turning
Social Security into a Ponzi scheme that would make Bernie Madoff proud.

4. Recently, just like Lucy & Charlie Brown, you and "your ilk" pulled the
proverbial football away from millions of American seniors nearing retirement and moved the goalposts for full retirement from age 65 to age, 67. NOW, you and your "shill
commission" are proposing to move the goalposts YET AGAIN.

5. I, and millions of other Americans, have been paying into Medicare from
Day One, and now "you morons" propose to change the rules of the game. Why?
Because "you idiots" mismanaged other parts of the economy to such an extent
that you need to steal our money from Medicare to pay the bills.

6. I, and millions of other Americans, have been paying income taxes our
entire lives, and now you propose to increase our taxes yet again. Why?
Because you "incompetent bastards" spent our money so profligately that you
just kept on spending even after you ran out of money. Now, you come to the
American taxpayers and say you need more to pay off YOUR debt.

To add insult to injury, you label us "greedy" for calling "bullshit" to
your incompetence. Well, Captain Bullshit, I have a few questions for YOU:

1. How much money have you earned from the American taxpayers during your
pathetic 50-year political career?

2. At what age did you retire from your pathetic political career, and how
much are you receiving in annual retirement benefits from the American
taxpayers?

3. How much do you pay for YOUR government provided health insurance?

4. What cuts in YOUR retirement and healthcare benefits are you proposing in
your disgusting deficit reduction proposal, or as usual, have you exempted
yourself and your political cronies?

It is you, Captain Bullshit, and your political co-conspirators called
Congress who are the "greedy" ones. It is you and your fellow nutcase
thieves who have bankrupted America and stolen the American dream from
millions of loyal, patriotic taxpayers.

And for what? Votes and your job and retirement security at our expense, you
lunk-headed, leech.

That's right, sir. You and yours have bankrupted America for the sole
purpose of advancing your pathetic, political careers. You know it, we know
it, and you know that we know it.

And you can take that to the bank, you miserable son of a bitch. NO, I did
not stutter.


P.S. And stop calling Social Security benefits "entitlements". WHAT AN
INSULT!!!!

I have been paying in to the SS system for 45 years. It's my money, give it
back to me the way the system was designed and stop patting yourself on the
back like you are being generous by doling out these monthly checks.

I would say that this woman is pissed off.........lol.

[ProblemAgain]

this actually illustrates one of the fables that people believe. social security was never designed to function like a bank account where 'your' money was kept all snug and cozy in its own little account and bore interest. rather social security was designed as a huge flow of funds that took small payments from huge groups of individuals and then paid out to individuals from funds which flowed in. otherwise it would not have been paying out from the getgo. and the far right has been posting bullshit for years about 'give me back the money that's in MY account with the interest and i'll be fine instead of giving it to all those bums and immigrants" well you generally get back ALL you paid in within about 4 years...not to mention the employee only pays HALF the social security payment...the other half is paid by the employer...if you are self-employed, you get the joy of paying both halves...

[exedir]

Well, sorta, as proposed in 1935 it was a program created to put money into people's hands and then fund it with an extra taxes on employees and employers that was to be a separate, segregated fund which of course had to be funded initial with non-Social Security monies.  

What is now isn't what the 1935 law started which includes a great vote buying scheme useful for politicians to use to gin up and provide real and important benefits to the general population mostly of takers rather than givers...Oh, my bad.

Yup, don't touch my Medicare!!!...or other benefits that are mine given to me by my hard work, the treasury and acts of Congress with presidential signatures.  

No, these are not just political largess, well, maybe...but real benefits that are now pillars of our economy, finances and citizens expectations and for me, us, an essential reality.

Now the question is what to do about it?  Major structural reforms are necessary, but not necessary to happen to this generation, us, until we are gone.  As to those not getting benefits, need to redraw the compact early enough so those that follow us can make the changes in anticipation of what is going to happen, lack of funding to carry out the programs already in place.

We have to recognize it is a Ponzi scheme, that it can't go on as it is and if it is changed it needs to be changed sooner than later to give those that are coming heads up to make what adjustments they can and must do. 

[Saltie]

Sounds just like the definition of a Ponzi scheme

[ProblemAgain]

just another example of trollwork..notice he chums the water without bothering to actually examine any issue whatsoever ...and then later he will chime in crowing about liberals etc etc...he did the very same thing on eons. in fact i was beginning to wonder if the far right hadn't hired him to glean skewed data, factoids and erroneous stories from blogs and post them to 'prove' their case...as an example, notice he doesn't mention regarding the 'food stamp program' that we just came thru the largest recession in 80 years and of course there will be a larger number out of work...fallacious use of facts...

[Ioruach]

And its not just Alan Simpson.  It’s a whole trove of politicians, a large number of them Republicans.