august osage county great white sharks and orca's

[frenchy]

so i saw that movie august osage county with meryl streep and julia roberts and if you haven't seen it yet no worries i'm not gonna give it away so no need for any spoiler alerts .. i'm just gonna mention one little thing that was said while they were at the dinner table and thats what got me to thinkin .. the daughter said she didn't eat meat because she didn't want to eat the animals fear .. i thought that statement a little odd at first .. as if fear had a taste or somethin but if you think about it further you can only imagine what is pulsin thru your veins when you're scared .. especially for your life .. it could just change the taste from the chemicals that get dumped into the blood from all the adrenilen .. and who knows what that does to us when we eat it ?? it was food for thought anyway and then i came upon this video on youtube about great white sharks and orca's in the san francisco area .. it seems this great white shark was swimmin along and not a worry in the world .. after all he's a great white shark what does he have to worry about right ?? but the orca had a different idea and he grabbed that shark and killed it .. now here's where it got interesting .. there was always quite a few great whites in the frisco area .. other sharks too .. hundreds perhaps , but after that orca killed that great white they all disappeared.. all of em .. gone in like 15 minutes .. the shark watchers and the orca watchers couldn't quite explain it at first because you don't usually see the two species at the same time .. in fact the orca's were only spotted every few years or so .. the sharks were always around .. the guys who studied orca's were sayin that they will usually either eat seals or they'll go out to sea and eat fish .. but they usually don't eat both .. one guy was tryin to say the reason the orca attacked the great white was because it was a mother protectin her calf but then another orca watcher said no , i know that whale ( they can tell from their fins somehow sorta like fingerprints ) and she don't have any calfs.. so they were kinda baffled by it all .. it seemed that the orca just killed the great white so easy and that shouldn't have been such an easy task . then one guy who knew sharks came up with a theory .. he said that if you can flip a shark on its back it will pretty much go into a daze .. i think he called it tonic hypnosis or somethin and he thinks thats how the orca did it .. and then he actually demonstrated with a small lemon shark and sure enough once he flipped that sucker over it was like a little puppy gettin its belly rubbed .. and then he came up with a theory on why all the sharks left the area .. ( i'll bet you were wonderin how i was gonna tie this all together weren't you )  it seems that when a shark is afraid it gives off a scent that other sharks can smell .. and once they smell that they'll split in a hurry .. now how they exactly extracted that shark fear stuff they didn't say but that guy who was pettin that lemon sharks belly like it was a puppy put a few drops in the water and that shark flipped back over and was gone so fast .. as if he was gonna get beat like a redheaded stepchild or somethin .. .. which brings me back to august osage county and eatin meat that is full of fear .. it sounded so weird  when i first heard it but then it made me rethink it after this shark orca thing .. what if some of the food we're eatin is responsible for some of the things that happen to us ?? stress levels ?? heart disease ? strokes ?? blood pressure ? anxiety ?? its worth a look anyway .. the other thought that came to me if they could extract a bunch of that stuff is they could give it to sailors in case they end up in the water .. the uss indianapolis comes to mind .. that was the ship that quint was on from the movie jaws and while everything else in the movie was fiction the uss indianapolis was true .. they did deliver the bomb that got dropped on japan and they did get torpedo'd and 1100 men went into the water .. their mission was so secret nobody knew where they were .. i think they were in the water for about 3 days and when they finally found them only about 300 of them were still alive .. the sharks got the rest of em .. sad but true story .. anyway .. welcome to how my mind works .. what do you think about any of this ?? do you think the meat we eat can actually effect us if it was scared before we killed it ? i'm not ready to be a vegatarian just yet but it does make me think .. what about you ??  

[CaliforniaNow]

I. . .don't know. They say now plants have feelings too so don't scare them before you eat them either, huh?

Although the stress levels thing sounds plausible, apparently not all animals are wise to the leave now thing. It takes years and years to thin out, say, a deer population. Of course that's why they have hunting seasons but deer don't just up and leave. If they had an entire ocean to disappear into, they might.

When you said, ". . .pettin that shark's belly like it was a puppy. . .put a few drops in the water and the shark flipped back over and was gone. . ." He put a few drops of what in the water????

[frenchy]

he put a few drops of that shark fear extract .. yeah i know .. exactly what is that ?? that was the big mystery they just kinda glossed over .. they didn't say how they assertained it or what it was made up of .. i was kinda wishin they woulda expounded on that just a little bit .. 

far as the dear goes i'm not sure they have someplace else to go .. and a dear has always been an animal thats been preyed on in the wild .. i'm not sure if that makes any sense tho ..i remember once seein a herd of bison and one of them was shot from far away .. the shot bison just keeled over and the rest just kept on eatin grass .. looked up for a second and went right back to eatin grass.. no sense of danger or fear .. you'd think somethin like that woulda stampeded the herd but it didn't ..maybe dear also bein a herd animal would be similar ?? i'm not sure ..   sharks on the other hand were never afraid of anything except maybe a bigger shark ?? so with that logic anyplace where a smaller shark got eaten by a bigger shark the water should have been flooded with them fear hormones ..and all the sharks should leave ??  its almost like i can argue this myself from both sides .. eeeeeeeee.. i'm sooooooooooo confused ... 

[T2Friends]

The relationship between predator and prey is an interesting one.  I tend to feel that there is a natural order to things and believe in most cases one can't properly survive with out the other.   If you remove the natural predators from the food chain, it results in overpopulation and result in disease and starvation of certain species (thinking deer here) and if there is not enough prey, the predators can starve and die out.  Man, being at the top of the food chain, at least at this time, has the ability to adapt and so we survive regardless.  I do know some chose to be vegetarian as a protest to the treatment and cruelty to animals, others because they believe it provides them with a measure of control in their lives and still others for health reasons.  

For the most part I am not aware of how cows, pigs and chickens are slaughtered these days and I am not interested in becoming aware frankly.   Many animal activist would want me to know that there is nothing humane in the process and I believe that.  However, I am not sure those animals experience fear in the same manner that humans do.  The secretion or scent  you mention could just a warning of danger.   A simple survival mechanism within the species, without any emotional aspects associated with it.  The animals that we live with and have domesticated we assign feelings and emotional responses similar to our own.  I know I am a dog and cat lover and the attachment is amazing.  But we really don't know that they experience the things in the same way as we humans do, we think they do, we act like they do and it makes the connection feel very special and it is.  But the truth be told, those dogs and cats would react in a similar manner to anyone that treated them in the same way.    It is why we can adopt animals out of shelter and care for them and give them a good life.  It is special for us, but I think not as much for them. 

[crestofwaves]

I disagree with T2. I give animals credit for a lot more than what science tells us they can feel.

Perhaps animal flesh is tainted by fear.  I was always against hunting until someone said the animal is what it's supposed to be until the end when it is hunted instead of crated and injected with hormones and antibiotics. Maybe hunted animals make for a healthier diet.  Interesting to think about, but I have no answers.

I have also heard girls boobs are bigger now because of hormones injected into the animals, but I think this post goes deeper.

As to the movie, I HATED it.  Meryl Streep reminded me too much of my sister--always on the attack, always cutting people down. 

My nephew died this winter. Because my sister had nothing, I paid for his funeral--a huge chunk of change, helped with the repast arrangements, ordered the urn online because she just couldn't--the normal things a sister would do to help her grieving sister, right? 

OK.  This week she buried his remains and called me afterwards to say she buried him.  I asked why she didn't ask me to come. She made excuses.  Then I said I was hurt since I was so involved in all the arrangements and he WAS my nephew.  Her response wasn't, Oh, I'm sorry you felt hurt.  It was Oh, COME ON!!!! ( you idiot wasn't spoken, but I felt it.) BTW, the thank you I received from her for the thousands I spent and the help I gave was a pre-printed card on which she wrote: Thanks for everything.  Am I being pissy, which could be, or is she, at the least, discourteous.  If I weren't a family member, I am sure she would have at least invited me to her house for dinner.

So, Frenchy, I am thinking of the idea of chemicals being spilled into the brain in times of stress, fear, grief, etc.  Do those chemical make us do and say things that are just horrible? Do they make us toxic to those around us?  Or is it a character flaw?

[uno,dos,3]

I vote character flaw...though I don't see any evidence of your sister having any character. Her treatment of you was totally unacceptable and indefensible. As is often said you can pick your friends but you can't pick your family...spend your time, energy, and empathy where it is appreciated. 

[T2Friends]

gotta agree with Uno on this one.

[ProblemAgain]

something to think about jo..your nephew was troubled his whole life. perhaps it was his parenting that was the cause. your sister sounds like a classic narcissist. one of the 'my hangnail carries more weight than your broken leg' people. you deserved better.

[carrie cavanaugh]

I agree with crestofwaves, movie was awful.  I am a vegetarian, have been for 5 years.  The reason I gave it up, my daughter was dating a guy that had a family business of organic  beef farm, so many times he would give us free beef.  They eventually broke up and I had to go back to buying the stuff from the store, it was awful, did not even taste right to me (chemicals and dyes) disgusting.  I have 5 children 3 are vegetarians, my husband will eat a steak twice a week, but that is purchased from Whole Foods.  I do feel bad for the animals.  I think if everyone saw how they were treated and slaughtered you might reconsider eating beef.   

     

[Lifesighs]

I know that hunters are aware the meat will not taste as good if the animal they are hunting is frightened, they try to kill before the animal is aware of being hunted.

Joanna I'm sorry to hear that your sister wasn't appreciative of all the things you've done. Consider in your own mind that you went to the trouble and expense for your nephew. I'm sure he appreciates your care. Your sister needs to wake up to having someone who would do all that for her in the family. I hope she comes to her senses.

[crestofwaves]

I can lay my head down with ease at night. I tried my best.  I realize that's the most important thing.

Someone taught me long ago that expectations are built in disappointments.

[ProblemAgain]

except chocolate....i was told once that the difference between people and chocolate is that chocolate never disappoints..

[frenchy]

confucious says he who expects nothing is never disappointed .. i try to live by that as best i can .. but every now and then i open up a little too much and let someone in .. but thats my own fault ..cause i expected something .. you can't blame someone else for not livin up to your own expectations .. i have an older sister too cresty .. and i do love her .. very much actually .. always have .. and i always will .. she disappoints me all the time tho .. but . thats because every now and then i let my guard down and i actually expect her to act a certain way or do somethin .. and when she don't should i blame her for just bein herself ?? i don't think its the food she's eatin either .. and can i say its a character flaw cause she see's things different than i do ?? i can't say that i'm not flawed .. i'm clearly not what she wanted tho... i think she woulda been happier with a puppy but instead my mom brought home me .. and there i was 2 weeks old and she got a hold of my moms makeup and made me up like a little cupie doll .. my mom just about had a cow and beat her little ass . it was all downhill from there .. she wanted my mom to take me back right then .. if she couldn't play with me like a doll then what good was i ?? and so began the strained relationship between me and my sister .. i still love her tho ..