so who else is watchin the zimmerman trial ??

[frenchy]

i've seen bits and pieces of it but i'm watchin these talkin heads now who are sayin that john good the last witness who actually did see zimmerman on the ground and treyvon on top whoopin him mma style ( which means mixed martial arts like ufc or ultimate fightin champinship ) has opened the door for the prosecution because he said maybe zimmerman could have wriggled free . which would mean that he didn't have to shoot trevon because he wasn't in imminent danger .. as if he could have just gotten away as easy as snappin your fingers ..but the thing is tho if you knew what zimmerman had said in his deposition when he was arrested ( yes he was arrested , a lot of people think he wasn't but he was , and he was questioned for 5 hours , and they took his clothes for evidence ) he said treyvon saw the gun in his jacket in the holster and tried to take it from him and they grappled over the gun and it went off .. so i'm not sure how zimmerman could have prevented that unless he just handed the gun over to a guy who's beatin your brains out .. but does that make sense to anyone here ?/ hey lemme give you my gun so you'll stop beatin me and you can shoot me instead ok?? ..  they should get some guys who have done their homework on this event to commentate .. 

[frenchy]

well i'm not sayin the kid deserved to die .. i never said that .. but as the law in florida and probably about 25 other states reads all you have to show is that you had a legitimate reason to be afraid for your life .. even if you're  not harmed at all .. not even a scratch on you .. just the legitimate fear that you will be badly hurt of killed . of course you have to sell that to a jury unless the other person is found with a gun in their hand too .. then its pretty much a no brainer , and have a few witnesses too .. zimmerman had the nasty luck of not havin any witnesses that actually eyeballed the whole thing .. all they did was hear it and of course treyvons mom today said she was positive that was her son on the 911 tape screamin for help ..even tho they had a witness john goode who said zimmerman was on the bottom gettin the snot beat out of him(and it shows) they still expect the jury to believe it was treyvon screamin for help .. it just don't add up .. so they got to call their first witness for the defense today and it was zimmermans mom and she swore that was her son george .. and then his uncle who knew him since he was born and is a court balif in the next county after servin for 25 years in the army as a master seargant he became a balif and he also swore it was george zimmerman .. and george has a brother and a sister still to go and probably his wife too who will probably all swear its him and not treyvon .. treyvons brother said he wasnt sure it was treyvon .. and tracy martin treyvons dad said when he first heard the 911 tape thats not my son .. i'm not sure who convinced him it was .. crump perhaps ?? or just the realization that if it wasn't treyvon then it had to be zimmerman , which would mean treyvon was the aggressor here and got shot because he was beatin zimmerman .. so which family is tellin the truth .. treyvons ?? or zimmermans .. with treys family you got one definite and one i'm not sure and and one who said definitely not and then recanted to yes it is .. i'll bet zimmermans family goes 5 and 0 that its george definitely .. we got 2 already .. 3 or more to go .. zimmerman will get off but as shadow said and me too there will be civil suits no matter what .. thats what they have crump for .. so win lose or draw it won't matter they'll sue zimmerman , twin lakes complex , the sanford police dept. , probably the city of sanford too .. and probably me too .. and who knows maybe the state of florida .. if he can sue em i think crump will .. 

[grammyk]

Classic "he said, she said".  But you are so very sure that you know which side is telling the truth and which isn't.  I believe a medical witness also testified that Zimmerman's injuries were "insignificant" but hey, don't pay attention to anything that doesn't fit the conclusion you came to on about Day 2 of this whole tragedy.   

[frenchy]

well grammy his injuries as i've said before have nothin to do with weather he had the right to defend himself or not .. thats the part you have to understand .. i didn't write the law , but that is the law.. all they have to prove is did zimmerman feel his life was in danger or not .. lookin at the pics from the crime scene night he looked pretty beat up to me .. it might not have been life threatin  but again let me ask you how many more slams on the concrete would it take to convince you that his life was in danger ?? how many head slams can the human skull take before it either kills him or turns him into a kumquat?? its a fair and reasonable question ..and as far as the medical examiner goes she changed her story on the stand under cross examination from omara .. why ?? because she knew she couldn't say conclusively what the prosecution wanted her to say .. each time he raised another possibility as to how this or that happened she had to say well yes its possible .. but again this has nothin to do with the medical examiner .. that part is all smoke and mirrors and misdirection .. as i said before there was a referee at a soccer match a month or so ago who was punched in the nose once .. one punch and it killed him .. and it was by a 17 year old kid who didnt like the call .. so because he killed that guy should they try him for second degree murder ?? the medical examiner can't say if the next blow could have been a fatal one and neither can you or i .. and this wasn't a day two conclusion for me .. thats an outright lie .. i was firmly entrenched in treyvons corner when this first broke but as this went along i wasn't so sure .. and the more i found out the more i realized it wasn't a case of racism as it was first reported or a case of some yahoo cowboy who was a wanna be cop .. it was and is a case of the right to defend yourself if you're attacked . if zimmerman was black and treyvon was white i'd still be on zimmermans side .. and as far as classic he said she said you have two out of three who said its not treyvons voice on that 911 call from treyvons family .. that doesn't make you even a little suspicious ?/ they said treyvon was an honor roll student yet he was suspended from school 3 times in half the year and they sealed his school records .. that don't make you wonder ?? they found him with a bag of jewelry and what the miami police described as a burglary tool and he said it wasn't his someone gave it to him but he wouldn't say who .. again no suspicion there ?? on the nite he was shot before zimmerman had any idea who he was he said he looks high or somethin , i don't know what his deal is because he was walkin around in the rain lookin in windows as if he was window shoppin.. the toxicology report came back that he was high on somethin that nite .. and when they scoured the crime scene they found what detective cerino described as a slim jim which is used to jimmy open doors and windows .. again .. that don't make you wonder ?? treyvon didn't have a mark on him except for where he was shot and bruised knuckles .. if george was fightin with him wouldn't he have had at least one welt or mark someplace ?? no suspicion there ??  .. zimmerman lost sight of treyvon .. if treyvon was so scared why did he double back ?? no suspicion there ?? why didn't he call 911 ?? he had a phone , no suspicion there ?? i'll agree with you that this was a tragedy grammy .. it surely was .. but makin zimmerman a victim twice won't make it right .. now i'm not sayin they shouldn't have a trial .. who knows maybe the prosecution has some kinda mind blowin evidence they been savin up for the very end and it will change my mind and everyone elses too .. and if they do i'll be the first to say i was wrong .. in public for all to hear .. i've been wrong before and i'll probably be wrong again about somethin .. but i don't think this is gonna turn out to be one of them times .. and remember your homework assignment if you should choose to accept it is to tell me how many times you have to allow someone to slam your head into the sidewalk before you can say next one will kill me so i'm gonna shoot you now .. you be zimmerman for 3 minutes and decide ok ?? 

[frenchy]

it ain't about the beatin or the medical examiner who never examined him herself perri, she just looked at some pictures and she changed her story after omara cross examined her .. she didn't look all that credible to me .. she looked like she couldn't find her own ass with both hands .. see the reply above .. 

just curious tho what makes you and grammy so sure treyvon was innocent ?? give me somethin concrete that i can ponder as to why because i can't find anything .. i can see you're pretty sure so tell me please what is it that makes you think treyvon was this innocent child here .. 

[frenchy]

perri, you did see the link i put up from the miami herald about the jewelry that they found him with in school along with what the miami police called a burglary tool ?? and you did see the lead detective cerino say on the stand that they found what is referred to as a slim jim which is known as a tool to jimmy open windows and doors in the bushes where zimmerman thinks treyvon jumped out at him from ?? coincidence ya think ?? and you are aware that that was zimmerman screamin for help as treyvon was smashin his head on the sidewalk .. think for a second , why would trevon be screamin ?? he had no marks on him at all until he was shot .. and the screams came before the gunshot .. he went for zimmermans gun and zimmerman got it first and he fired one shot .. at close range .approx 4 inches away ..its not like at some point zimmerman could have just got up and walked away and said i don't wanna fight ..he had no place to retreat to because treyvon had him pinned to the ground and zimerman said treyvon told him you're gonna die tonight mutherfucker .. maybe treyvon didn't mean it .. just a figure of speech thats used way too many times to count sometimes but in the situation he was in should he think he didn't mean it ?/ i mean he didn't know him and here he was beatin his brains out ..   i can't say for sure if zimmerman meant to kill treyvon or not but if you listen to the testimony he gave at the police station he didn't know he killed treyvon .. he found out hours later .. so all the time he was talkin to the police he had no idea he was gonna be held for murder .. he thought he shot him but he was gonna be ok ..they said he shot him right thru the heart but thats not true either .. he shot him above the heart ..i don't think the shot was aimed .. it just went where it went .. i agree its a shame that martin had to die , but i think it would have been an even worse tragedy if zimmerman died instead because he didn't fight with treyvon .. he never threw one punch .. i still don't think zimmerman was a hero .. i think he was a victim who somehow became a survivor .. they say all the time that guns don't save lives so you shouldn't have one .. and they lump all the gun deaths together in a great big ball .. what about the gun deaths that saved the innocent victims who were bein attacked ?? no stats on that .. don't misunderstand me here tho .. i'm not advocatin everybody go out and get a gun and shoot the first person who looks at you cross eyed .. could just be that person is cross eyed and it had nothin to do with you .. i don't think every case of stand your ground is automaticly right or should be decided in the shooters favor .. every case should be an individual case decided on the evidence .. all the evidence .. includin content of character .. 

[blithe spirit]

The judge will instruct the jury as to the various charges that are appropriate.
Just because the prosecution charged second degree murder, doesn't mean he can't be convicted of a lesser crime. They always charge for the most serious crime and then all the other lesser offenses that pertain.
The jury uses the the judge's instructions, weighs the evidence and the testimony and then decides. So yes, he can be convicted of manslaughter.

[Marianne Kiendl]

Interesting article today. We still have to hear the Defense

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/07/05/zimmerman-trial-is-alread...

[frenchy]

thats a good article mariane .. the guy hit it right on the head .. its what i been sayin all along .. they keep sayin stand your ground .. it makes me wanna say huh??? zimmerman wasn't standin on the ground .. this is not a stand your ground defense .. he had nowhere to retreat to and had no indication that the blows he was bein dealt were gonna stop at any time soon . you don't have to lay there and let someone beat you to death like a sacraficial lamb .. so weather zimmerman knew the stand your ground law or not is irelevant .. treyvon martin gave zimmernan no choice but to either get his brains bashed in or to shoot treyvon to get him offa him .. now maybe if john goode the one eye witness had pushed treyvon offa zimmerman that might have made a difference and treyvon would still be alive .. but he saw the beatin zimmerman was gettin and heard the cries for help and he wanted no part of that .. as most of the people in the complex .. nobody wanted to get involved .. back in the 60's there was a girl who was beaten and killed while she cried out for help and no one came to her aid ..i'm pretty sure it was in new york  and the name genovese comes to mind .. kitty maybe ..i think it was like 35 people or somethin that did nothin .. ehh ..it was a long time ago but it was a similar thing only she didn't have a gun and was killed .. just looked it up yeah it was kitty ..here's a link .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese 

[Marianne Kiendl]

The case still comes up every so often.

[frenchy]

is that true vicki ?? you're sure of that ?? i've heard it said and i don't know but if they don't prove second degree they can't charge him for less.. unless they drop the charge to manslaughter before they deliberate .. and ain't that somethin the state has to do ?? not the judge .. she just referee's for the most part, its the state that brings the charges in .. the judge can dismiss them if she feels they haven't made their case but can she reduce the charges to manslaughter ?? or even to aggravated assault .. i guess in the end it won't make much difference because they can give zimmerman 15 years on aggravated assault or manslaughter .. so in the end no matter what they charge him with if they should find him guilty they can give him anywhere from a suspended sentence to 25 years .. but then i'm not really sure .. i guess its time to do some more research .. 

[blithe spirit]

The the judge looks like a referee between the attoneys, but his or her job is to make sure everybody is following the rules...she decides what evidence and testimony is pertinent to the case and what isn't...and to make sure the law is being followed....and that means instructing the jury as to what the law is and isn't isn't as far as the jury is concerned.
My neighbor is a fomer judge and litigator. You can look it up on the internet for yourself though.
I've never been part of a murder trial, but I have been in the courtroom in other cases and the judge instructs the jury as to what the law is.
Mickchick can tell ya....

[blithe spirit]

I just found this on the net....from the American Bar Association...part of their attempt to educate the public about trials and such...enjoy....

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/resources/law_re...