Anyone want to bet?

[LoveLife&Laughter]

[LoveLife&Laughter]

[Lifesighs]

What possible difference would it make, the cardinals are only going to choose someone who will protect their status quo. Does anyone still believe in this stuff anymore?

[Dennis Barsten]

99% of all Catholics...

[Lifesighs]

Nah, I know lots of Catholics and they aren't buying it anymore, I was even married to a couple of them, they gave up on it 40 years ago.

[The Dyslexic Dodger]

The one who can best ignor all of the sex abuse in the church???

[The Dyslexic Dodger]

Perri,

  Speeking only for myself of course yuo are correct no entire gruop shuold be deamonized for the crimes of a few. My flipent reply was insensitive, i apoligize. I do not believe that the masses of Catholic Clergy partisipate in or cover up sex abuse in the church.

  Several weeks ago I had lunch with a deer freind Deacon "Ray" he is a wonderful loving man who has deadicated his life to God , the (Catholic) Church, and helping poeple. He spoke at length with both anger and sorrow abuot the sexual abuse cases involving Clergy. He firmly believes that the church must be transparent in all cases of abuse and that the victoms of abuse must be asisted in all posible ways to recover. He as many practiceing Catholics is of the belief that any Clergy revieled to be involved in these crimes shuold (and will) pay a very high price for their crimes/sins both here and beyond.

 Tho i am not Christian i was raised a Catholic and find that I am very angry that there have ben many cases of sexual abuse that have gone unchecked by the church. I hope that the new Pope makes himself fully aware of this problem and works diligently to put safeguards in place to prevent further damage to his flock.

                                                                                                                         sincerly,

                                                                                                                         Dodger

   

[Ioruach]

It is interesting, though, that according to Wikipedia, betting on who will become the new Pope has been going on for centuries.  I understand that Las Vegas casinos don’t accept wagers on the subject, but several bookmakers in Europe do.  As for myself, I will limit such betting to the ponies. 

[exedir]

Good question that will be answered shortly, god willing.....

Expectations are going to be hard to deal with in this one, as to what the Rome Catholic Church needs in leadership and in the end, will get.  And no, change is not a reasonable expectation.  

What is reasonable is if the damage done to the Church is to be fixed, it is going to take a reformer, and in the current college that wasn't a criteria of selection by either John Paul or Benedict, quite the opposite.  There are the two obvious factions, the Italians and those that are not Italian.  If during the last two popes the curia has been able to retain and advance their standing and power, then the pope will be Catholic.  If not, the new pope could be the curia's worse nightmare, an outsider, a catholic to the Vatican.  And no, there will not be a red, white and blue one, most likely a Latin, where the Catholic Church still has the influence and power amongst the people and culture.  

Another European, means more of the same, internal focus rather external promotion of the faith and the faithful, recognition of the need for change and an overseer of that change within the hierarchy to make it happen.

These are difficult times for the validity of the Church's leaders to be of good moral authority much less examples. Whoever is chosen has to be the least involved in scandals and the serious lapse of leaders to look the other way when dealing with moral corruption, legal malfeasance and damage to the faith and faithful's confidence in their Church and the Church's leaders.  

[LoveLife&Laughter]

I don't believe God'll have anything to do with it.  It is a political battle between the conservative and liberal politics of the Church.  Remember the history of Vatican II?  My wife and I got caught in the middle of that battle; long story LOL ...

[The Dyslexic Dodger]

Digging aruond to find details abuot Pope Francis's stand on political issues I discovered how active he has ben in useing his positoin in the church to further descrimination against gays. I doubt that he has had a change of heart.

"then-Cardinal Jose Bergoglio was a major force against the 2010 move to legalize same-sex marriage in his native Argentina. Though he ultimately failed, Bergoglio used the full weight of the church to crush the measure."

It wuold be incredably nieve if i failed to consider the resent support that Gay Marriage equality has recieved in the United States as a part of the reason that then Cardinal Bergoglio is now Pope Francis. 

 

 ..the pontiff who is being hailed as a “new direction” for the Catholic Church is the same-old brand of theological conservative who opposes the ordination of women, abortion and the fundamental rights of gays and lesbians.

 

Here, a collection of his very worst quotes on the issue.

1. A Senate vote on gay marriage is a destructive pretension against the plan of God

From a letter to the Carmelite Sisters of Buenos Aires on the perils of marriage equality:

“Let’s not be naïve, we’re not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.”

2. Gay marriage will destroy the family

More from the same letter to the four monasteries of Argentina:

“The Argentine people will face a situation whose outcome can seriously harm the family… At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother and children.

3. Gay parenting is a rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts

Again:

“At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance, and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts.”

4. The political struggle against marriage equality is war

And finally:

“The bill will be discussed in the Senate after July 13. Look at San Jose, Maria, Child and ask them [to] fervently defend Argentina’s family at this time. [Be reminded] what God told his people in a time of great anguish: ‘This war is not yours but God’s.’ May they succor, defend and join God in this war.”

5. Gay adoption is discrimination against children

According to the National Catholic Reporter, Francis called gay adoption a form of “discrimination against children.” A comment that resulted in a public rebuke from Argentine President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, who said that Francis’ remarks suggested “medieval times and the Inquisition.”

   http://www.salon.com/2013/03/14/pope_francis_on_gay_rights_his_5_wo...

 

 

 

[Ioruach]

So how does that differ from the attitude of the Catholic church previously, or, for that matter, the attitude of most of religion. That's one reason why I reject religion; I prefer to think for myself.

[LoveLife&Laughter]

I would not expect any change, the new Pope's policies are homophobic and misogynistic.