Why do so many people believe America is a Democracy?

[no1toolmkr]

We were warned repeatedly by the founding fathers what would happen if we ever became one, look around you, see the news lately? they're warnings are very much becoming a reality.

Truth is were not a Democracy, Don't believe me? recite the pledge of allegiance.

America is by definition a Constitutional Republic, and we were warned extensively by the founding fathers these days would be coming if we ever transformed into a Democracy.

Well, once again they have proven they're age old wisdom to be incalculably correct.

If we're a Democracy then whats the purpose of having a Constitution?  there is none.

The fundamental difference between a Democracy and a Republic is as vivid as night and day.

A republic is rule by "Law" (The Constitution)

A democracy is rule by "majority" (mob rule)

get it together folks and learn the truth, this nation is on the verge of committing suicide.

.

 

Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There was never a democracy that did not commit suicide.

John Adams, Letter, April 15, 1814
US diplomat & politician (1735 - 1826)

 

 

[no1toolmkr]

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 

 

The Preamble serves solely as an introduction, and does not assign powers to the Federal Government nor does it provide specific limitations on government action. Due to the Preamble's limited nature, no court has ever used it as a decisive factor in case adjudication except as regards frivolous litigation. 

 

in other words, it does not assign the power to the Federal Gvmt. to give you free health care, got it?

 

[P.A.]

Yes I have it. I hopefully someday so will you.

The ideas you profess and actually completely the opposite of what the founders wanted.

[no1toolmkr]

I'm not professing any ideas, merely quoting the founders themselves. 

[TeeBubbaDee]

Yeah, I got it.

I got sick, and I payed 33 medical bills every month , while not being able to work. That's not counting mortgage, insurance, utilities, food, gas, etc. I sent 33 checks for $20 bucks every month. Then I was only able to send $10 bucks a month. Then $5 bucks a month. I finally defaulted on a gazillion medical bills, and eventually on credit cards too. Before I got sick, I had excellent credit. When a bill came in the mail, it was paid the same day, or the next at that latest. I had 4 credit cards in my pocket, and the highest was 9.9, the lowest was 5.9%. That wasn't an introductory rate. You don't get one of those without a really good credit score. 

Hope you never get sick tool.

Oh wait, Obama's health care plan will keep you from being raped by the system.

[CWO3ROBBIE]

I have repetedly ask Tool to explain how he would design a government that would solve the countries problems. He has never made any attempt to do so. He always talks about how the states should have all the power but never explains how they would operate without the Federal government to keep them working together. His ideas about apportionment for building and maintaining infrastructure would quickly bring commerce to its knees. Until he can explain how a bunch of small communities operating independently would be able to compete and survive in the existing high tech world, I won't pay much attention to him.  I agree that we appear to be on a downward path, but do not understand how breaking up the federal government will help. It appears to me that it would make the situation worse.

[Apposite]

Robbie, Tool's not saying he has any answers, just that the answers he sees others making, are not in line with his version of Constitutional law.

[CWO3ROBBIE]

 Apposite, That is what he is now claiming. but that is not what his message has always been. As I remember it, he has been ranting for a long period about how screwed up the country is and blaming it on the fact that we as a country often use taxes to do things to improve the country. His until recently has been that individuals and/or businesses should pay taxes only for things that they use personally.  I do not think that will work. He has started spouting this Federalist Papers argument only recently.  Personally, I feel that if someone is going to rant and rail about how something is going to be done, they should have an idea for a better way of doing it.  The only time he has ever answered one of my questions, other than to tell me to go off and read something was when I ask about how we should defend the country. His answer was" We should depend only on local militias. does anyone else think that would work in the modern world. He seems to have no knowledge or concern about how developments in the rest of the world effect this country. Personally, I have come to consider any response to his diatribs a complete wast of time. That is why many of us stopped going to his "We The People" Unless he is willing and able to propose a solution to what he sees as being wrong with the country, I see no benefit in reading his stuff. 

    

[Apposite]

I don't suppose you have to agree of disagree but his posts are just one form of expression among many here. Whether you like of dislike his stuff it can be enjoyable to meet anybody on their own turf. I think he is throwing down and argument and daring us to respond. I don't know why there has to be much vitriol and personal attack.

[no1toolmkr]

by simply following the existing design, we are suppose to be a nation of Law, our Government is subject to the Constitutional law, I have not once voiced a personal opinion on that law, only quoted it, and where there is an opinion on the law or the constitution I usually read through the federalist papers to find the opinion or intent of the founding fathers. I've been reading through it for many years now, in an attempt to answer your very question to me, for myself. I can only answer you Robbie that the current Government does not follow the constitution or seem to even attempt too, and hasn't for many many years now. and I believe that our problems today are directly attributable to that fact..

The answer is the same, force our Government to actually follow the Law of the Constitution, and not permit it to make law's that are as blatantly un-constitutional as the health care bill is.

I'm not spewing right wing crap either, I've directly quoted either the constitution, or the federalist papers which were personally written by the founding fathers to help the general public to understand the constitution and correctly interpret they're intent.

here's the link again, http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/

They are very consistent about they're feelings about Democracy, and are vividly descriptive about they're disdain for it. they're is a search tool for the papers at this site, use it too find the places where it talks about Democracy, and you will find our founding fathers reasons for NOT making our country a Democracy.

I'm not suggesting you take my word for it, I have no opinion on it that I've voiced here. I'm suggesting you seriously look into they're reasoning and rational for every part of the constitution, including why our Government is not a Democracy.  after that, if you would, tell me why you or any one else out there feels that it is. I'd like to know. 

did you learn it in school?, hear it from a candidate?, or perhaps your family always felt that America was a Democracy. Truthfully I always thought it was too for many years, that is until I started reading the facts, and reading our founding fathers notes and writing's on it. And you will find that not one member of the congressional congress or the signers of the declaration of independence supported a Democratic Government, and all had good reason for not, They knew History.

A really good question would be, if they were so knowledgeable about history, why aren't we?

 we have vastly more tools at our disposal than they did, what books were they taught from. How did they know that there has not been one successful example of a Democracy in all of history, How did they know that the problems were having today would happen if or when we fell victim to Democracy?

they warned us repeatedly in the federalist papers and other of they're writings.

The best answer I have for you is to read the papers Robbie, there you will find the answer to your question as I did. I had the very same question Robbie. The answer is there, and the answer is force the Government to actually follow and obey the Constitution...

[no1toolmkr]

a paragraph from federalist paper #10

 

From this view of the subject it may be concluded that a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of government, have erroneously supposed that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions.

 

These people Hated the concept of Democracy, held absolutely nothing but pure disdain for it.

This is just one paragraph, there are at least 3 other papers that get into it as much as this one, if you truly believe the founding fathers intended a democracy Robbie, PA, or apposite find me they're words that say that, I've yet to find them, and I've been searching.

[Apposite]

P.A. ---"Having Tool on here writing his right wing crap ..."

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Hey, hey, hey! Isn't that part of what brought MA? We need participation regardless of the forum at this point. In addition I think much of what he says is valid anyway and I am far from right wing.

[no1toolmkr]

TY Apposite. Hopefully we can turn the tide Before our founding fathers prediction's become reality.

All I'm suggesting to anyone, is read, read, read history. And the truth will reveal itself to anyone who cares enough to read it. It's not my interpretation, I'm not voicing an opinion, at most I have quoted the Constitution, the founding fathers themselves, and referenced they're writings to The People of New York explaining the Constitution and the American form of Government, and they're reasoning for writing it the way they did. Obviously we've broken it. And if you look to them for guidance on how to fix it. They're answer seems to be unanimously in favor of turning away from A Democracy, and reinstate the values and Laws of the Constitution. There is no purpose for a Constitution in A Democracy when a Majority can over rule it, And that is the beginning to the end of  A Republic, and consequently the road to an Oligarchy, tyranny by the elite. Which has absolutely every time in the history of the world when a Democracy has been embraced.