i'm not sure what happened here but they better come clean quick

[frenchy]

unless you've been under a rock for the last few days you musta heard about the shootin in st. louis .. seems this young black guy got shot by a cop in ferguson which is suburb of st. louis .. well this has the whole black population mad as hell and they're riotin .. al sharpton is there and the kids family hired crump as their lawyer .. you might remember him from the trevon martin trial .. so far they've been pretty tight lipped on the police side .. could be they're tryin to get all their ducks in a row before they say anything but i don't think thats helpin matters .. i did see one kid who was supposedly with the guy who was shot and he said they were walkin down the street , not blockin traffic and just havin a polite conversation between them when a police car came by and told them to get on the sidewalk and then pulled away .. but then the cop threw it in reverse and came back and reached his arm out the window and just started chokin the guy who he eventually shot .. now the guy he choked from inside the car was 6 foot 2 or 3 .. how long was this cops arm that he could reach out and grab a guy that tall from inside his squad car ?? then he shot the guy and they both ran away .. the second guy hid in fear for his life and the cop shot the other guy twice more .. i think the police said they were doin some kinda exercise they called clean the streets or clean sweep or somethin like that .. the first thing i wanted to know was were there sidewalks ?? otherwise why were these two guys in the middle of the street ? and when you see the crime scene all roped off yes there were .. so all this is just speculation on my part but when the cop backed up they were still in the street .. and this is after he either asked them nicely to get on the sidewalk or he barked at them to move like they were animals .. or somewhere inbetween .. so my question would be at what point do you not have to obey a cop if his attitude is shitty ?? even if technically you are breakin the law by bein in the middle of the street ?? now i'm not sure just how the wheels came off the wagon but i'm thinkin thats how it started . how it got to the point of bullets bein fired i don't know .. so far we only have the one guy who ran away's side of things .. i wanna hear the cops side .. and quick too before this gets too far outta hand .. if it hasn't gone too far already ..     

[crestofwaves]

I saw the actual surveillance video.  Don't know if they can doctor that. The kid had a little guy in his hands in a convenience store setting.

And I agree about the testosterone.  And I know there are good cops who really want to help their communities, but I also know that some my worst students, the ones with the most problems with authority, went on to be cops or join the military.  Maybe it was their way to get a handle on the situation, or maybe it was their way to bully legally.

[ProblemAgain]

i'm not saying the video is doctored at all but if they had released the information and  the video days ago, there might not have been all the turmoil. the fact that they took so long make it sound suspect. at the very least they might have said the officer had been dispatched to a robbery and the scenario so that the storyline did not become innocent teenager walking down the street bullied by prejudiced donut-eating cop. with the racial makeup,it sounds like some of ferguson's police force might have an us against them mentality and some of the population might as well.

[crestofwaves]

It sounds like the same fog of incident or fog of war thing as Benghazi.  Who knows what is actually happening at the time.  But, yes, I agree.  Total ineptitude all the way around.

[frenchy]

well now that the facts are commin out we can see it was more than just jaywalkin and a bad attitude .. i think we have to just wait till all the facts come out which was what the police were sayin .. and i was sayin too .. they wanna get all their ducks in a row before they reveal too much .. they wanna ask any possible eyewitnesses and see how many of them tell the same story before they tell all they know .. makes sense .. after all if you ask someone how many times did the officer fire his weapon and they don't know or they only repeat what the police say is the number , how credible can their testimony be ?? but if none of these facts are out there for everyone to know and all the eyewitnesses cooberate what really happened then they know they're tellin it like it happened .. i still think shootin the kid is a bit too much but we ain't done yet with this investigation so i'll still withhold my judgement till all is revealed .. as far as the first eyewitness to the shootin goes , the one i posted here his credibility is totally shot as far as i'm concerned .. cause he was part of the robbery and made sure to tell his side and convieniently leave that part out .. its not too much of a stretch for me to think he may have left out or added other pertinent parts that were simply not true to make a case against the officer .. and again i'm not absolvin him of any guilt just yet .. but i was about 50/50 before and i'm more like 60/40 now  .. and that 40 will be droppin like a rock if more lies come out .. they said this brown kid had no run ins with the police .. was that since he turned 18 ?? or would that include his minor offences too ? or will that be another treyvon martin thing where well he's a minor and them other 14 arrests don't count and we can't talk about them cause it will only assinate his character ?? or will they allow it because there was a cop involved ??  

[P.A.]

I agree with crest. I taught high school seniors, history and government, for years. Like creast said very often the most difficult students, more than the average, became cops or joined military. I remember only two excellent students who went into the military. One went to West Point and one to Annapolis.

[ProblemAgain]

and that's the problem... weeding out the people who  shouldn't be in the police. on a local basis i notice that many of the law enforcement agencies have a tendency to hire the guys who played football without a helmet in high school, the muscular jocks who are already too macho to turn loose with a gun and a badge. that being said, there are plenty of decent hardworking intelligent cops yet often they essentially help cover for the bad ones because of the brotherhood of the blue line. if they turn in the bad ones, who will be there to back them up if they need it?

[frenchy]

and thats why they have the doj and the fbi and the ferguson chief of police called in the st. louis police to handle the investigation.. that ferguson chief don't want any part of this investigation cause even if he's right he knows nobody would believe him .. even if he's wrong probably too .. it was the first thing he did was exonerate his dept. from the investigation .. so that blue wall shouldn't be a factor here .. shouldn't bein the key word there.. 

[frenchy]

well this is gettin a bit more complicated now ain't it ?? they just released some video of mike brown in the middle of a strongarm robbery right before he was shot .. and of course all his lawyers ( especially crump ) is sayin they're tryin to character assasinate brown .. hmmm.. let me get this part straight .. brown is on video doin a robbery with the intent to commit harm which is robbery in the 2nd degree and that in itself is the fault of the police because they showed it ?? all the lawyers they have are all tryin to say this doesn't matter ?? are you kiddin me ?? this don't matter ?? on what planet would this not matter ?? first off nobody is sure one way or the other if darren wilson the police officer heard this over his squadcar radio or not .. that will come out soon enough tho .. but here's the thing .. brown knew he did it and they can't deny that part .. so if wilson only stopped them because they were bein arogant and refused to get on the sidewalk as told, brown still knew he just commited a robbery .. for all we know brown and wilson heard it on wilsons radio at the same time and thats when the scuffle took place and they kicked wilson back inside his squadcar .. thats only one scenario .. another could simply be brown knew he was in deep shit and thought wilson was commin for him so he struck first .. but the simple fact that brown would commit robbery in broad daylight and shove a store clerk around and if you look at the video as the clerk comes towards him again brown turns to what looks like to me strike of push the clerk again .. the only reason why it didn't happen was the clerk backed down considerin his own size compared to browns ..everyone is tryin to anyalize wilsons frame of mind , who is he ? why did he do this ? what kind of cop was he ?? well so far there's nothin in his backround that shows he likes to abuse his authority .. ( this is all still new tho so that can change ) so , what else do we know about mike brown ?? everyone was cryin they wanted to know who the cop was and his backround .. now they know .. so now its time for the other side to ante up .. there were 2 main players in this mess .. what is browns backround ?? we know what he did 10 minutes before the altercation .. what about 5 years before ?? everyone is sayin they want justice .. well justice is lookin at the whole picture , not just the side you want to see .. i still think shootin someone is a really grave consequence for a few cigars so i'd like to get the whole story .. but the way the law is written once you assault a cop he has the right to use whatever force is nesessary to get the situation under control .. i think there are times that authority is abused tho .. is that what happened here ?? could be ?? did they assasinate mike browns character by releasin that video ?? nahh .. i think mike brown did that all by himself .. and the crowds that are protestin it all because they didn't like the ferguson police's way of handlin it ?? well it looked like havin the state police was a much better idea .. for one night anyway .. but the honeymoon is over now and last night they went back to lootin and burnin .. and if this keeps up we don't see anybody else gettin shot now do we ?? or do the police just let them loot and burn down the whole town ?? at what point do the police start crackin heads and puttin looters in jail ?? cause you know thats commin if they keep it up .. you have to know that ..    

[frenchy]

so it did happen .. someone was shot last night at the protest.. i can't seem to find out who or why except that it wasn't the police who shot him.. i think they said it was a white male .. i wonder how tonight will go ?? lets hope it will be better ..

i found somethin on the use of deadly force by the police .. a supreme court ruling .. i'm sure it will be applied to this case ..

In the 1980s, a pair of Supreme Court decisions — Tennessee vs. Garner and Graham v. Connor — set up a framework for determining when deadly force by cops is reasonable.

Constitutionally, "police officers are allowed to shoot under two circumstances," David Klinger, a University of Missouri-St. Louis professor who studies use of force, told Vox. The first circumstance is "to protect their life or the life of another innocent party" — what departments call the "defense-of-life" standard. The second circumstance is to prevent a suspect from escaping, but only if the officer has probable cause to think the suspect's committed a serious violent felony.

The logic behind the second circumstance, says Klinger, comes from a Supreme Court decision called Tennessee vs. Garner. That case involved a pair of police officers who shot a 15-year-old boy as he fled from a burglary. (He'd stolen $10 and a purse from a house.) The Court ruled that cops couldn't shoot every felon who tried to escape. But, as Klinger says, "they basically say that the job of a cop is to protect people from violence, and if you've got a violent person who's fleeing, you can shoot them to stop their flight."

The key to both of the legal standards — defense-of-life and fleeing a violent felony — is that it doesn't matter whether there is an actual threat when force is used. Instead, what matters is the officer's "objectively reasonable" belief that there is a threat.

Protestors in Ferguson, MO. (Scott Olson/Getty Images)

That standard comes from the other Supreme Court case that guides use-of-force decisions: Graham v. Connor. This was a civil lawsuit brought by a man who'd survived his encounter with police officers, but who'd been treated roughly, had his face shoved into the hood of a car, and broken his foot — all while he was suffering a diabetic attack. The court didn't rule on whether the officers' treatment of him had been justified, but it did say that the officers couldn't justify their conduct just based on whether their intentions were good. They had to demonstrate that their actions were "objectively reasonable," given the circumstances and compared to what other police officers might do.

And what's "objectively reasonable" changes as the circumstances change. "The moment that you no longer present a threat, I need to stop shooting," said Klinger. According to the St. Louis County Police Department's account, Wilson fired one shot from inside the police car. But Brown was killed some 35 feet away, after several shots had been fired. To justify the shooting, Wilson would need to demonstrate that he feared for his life not just when Brown was by the car, but even after he started shooting. The officer would need to establish that, right up until the last shot was fired, he felt Brown continued to pose a threat to him whether he actually was or not.

"One can't just say, 'Because I could use deadly force ten seconds ago, that means I can use deadly force again now,'" says Walter Katz, a California attorney who specializes in oversight of law enforcement agencies.

 

[ProblemAgain]

just as an example of the trouble with mixing macho and police work....in three days here in houston there were three high speed police chases that ended up causing 7 deaths of innocent civilians. instead of laying back and letting the helicopter track the vehicle, they just have to act like a football team trying to recover a fumble

[frenchy]

yeah them high speed chases can be really dangerous to all involved .. this was not a high speed chase tho .. i can already see how this is gonna go from here .. wilson the police officer is gonna say he was attacked by brown which would make brown a violent felon for attackin a police officer and fair game for bein shot at the first two times . but if brown had indeed put his hands up and said don't shoot i give up and wilson fired the last shot or shots ( nobody knows how many shots were fired for sure just yet ) anyway and killed brown then this will go to trial . cause at that point brown was no longer a threat .. and wilson will have to plead some kinda donut defense .. his sugar was low cause he hadn't had a donut in 30 minutes or more or some crazy shit like that .. or , his word against everybody elses that brown was still advancing towards him .. i'd like to know more about brown .. what was he doin the last 5 years ?? or did he just wake up last saturday and decide to be a thug and go amok ??  

[frenchy]

so now its a couple of days later .. they have called out the national guard .. and a few more people have been shot .. no real details other than it wasn't the police who shot them .. a lot of people are sayin these thugs ain't from their neighborhood who are doin all this stuff .. today another black man was shot but this time by the st. louis police .. he was wielding a knife at the time tho .. my big question here is .. don't these cops have tasers ?? do they need 357's to stop someone ?? from what i read tho this suspect was tellin the cops go ahead and shoot me .. shoot me .. shoot me .. so they declared it a suicide by cop .. and here's a clip of a mob lootin a liquor store and stealin all the booze they can carry along with cigarettes too .. its a wonderful way to honor mike browns memory ain't it .. 

http://centurylink.net/tv/3/player/vendor/Fox%20News/player/embedde...