TBD on Ning

Obama is fed up with Karzai ...

Re: “Frustrated with his Afghan counterpart, President Barack Obama is ordering the Pentagon to accelerate planning for a full U.S. troop withdrawal from Afghanistan by the end of this year. But Obama is also holding out hope that Afghanistan's next president may eventually sign a stalled security agreement that could prevent the U.S. from having to take that step.”

Good or Bad ... What say you?

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Permalink Reply by Ioruach on February 26, 2014 at 11:02am

I have mixed feelings about a full withdrawal. On one hand we have been there far to long, thanks to Bush’s loss of interest and commitment to that war, in favor of that stupid invasion of Iraq. On the other hand, the Taliban will probably take control again, and any gains women have made in political activity will be lost and girls will no longer have access to education, with stoning becoming a favorite punishment. So is it a choice between continued American presence, cost and sacrifice or the probability of a takeover by the barbarians?  I suppose we could stay there as long as we have stayed in Germany and Japan after WWII or in South Korea after that war.

Permalink Reply by ProblemAgain on February 26, 2014 at 11:20am

the difference is that a continued presence in afghanistan will be more like a presence in iraq with suicide bombers and ongoing deaths as well as flows of money which seem only to reward the tribal war lords rather than actually completing projects and rendering aid. you are not going to change the culture.

Permalink Reply by Ioruach on February 26, 2014 at 2:53pm

True Problem. In fact, I was one of those who helped provide our “presence” in Germany after WWII. But that was during 1953-1956 when we could enjoy that great German beer, Wiener Schnitzel and other delights, which those guys stuck in Iraq and Afghanistan would never have. And long before the words “suicide” and “bomber” began to be used together, too.

Permalink Reply by exedir on February 26, 2014 at 1:52pm

The word frustration could easily be pictured as a map of Afghanistan. Further, it is not a country, what it is, is, a bunch of lines drawn mostly by the British Foreign Office for classification, international negotiation and for other geography reasons as to describe the place by mountains, rivers, plains and other geographic features, Only incidentally were such maps drawn to include cultural, ethic and social issues and concerns, which generally made by those in the field, usually military, that have to deal with reality of what they found.

In this case, Afghanistan, we didn't create the mess, it already was a mess,. What we didn't to do solve it and only marginally made it better by force of arms and treasure. Once those arms and treasure are gone, everyone left will be back at the old business of stealing, killing and oppressing anyone who's in the way, and don't push back.

And yes...Welcome to Central Asia, and the map that others have made of it. And no, it isn't that easy done, as once it was, in office in London during the English Raj, or in Tsarists Russian, or during the Ottoman Empire.

Permalink Reply by LoveLife&Laughter on February 26, 2014 at 5:24pm

Well said Ex. I agree with Lo and PA also, except my guess is that a military presence closer to Iran may be the priority, and that Pakistan may be more of a "Radical Islam" threat than Afghanistan. It's only the Pakistan secular (military) govt that has kept the crazies somewhat contained there, but the crazies have had and will have and does have an open-season hunting permit in Afghanistan.

Personally, there are a lot of oversees military operations that I'd like to see shut down. This isn't the 20th Century where military presences in close proximity to colonial expansion was necessary to secure the peace and tranquility of the enslaved non-whites. Our military(s) domestic and allies can reach out anywhere with a $10 keyboard. The reason our military budget is so high is all these darn bases. All our branches are investing in stealth now -- air, land, sea, and spies .. we need to get rid of out-dated military thinking like battleships crossing the "T", tanks, and thousands of bombers. Even super-carriers need to be phased out.

Jus' my opinion ...

Permalink Reply by exedir on February 27, 2014 at 8:01am

The military/industrial complex is big business. It is also a patronage jobs program that might have some value, marginal value to the national defense, but to the locals an absolute economic necessity where there would be no financial alternative in the short run or long run to sustain or maintain the community and the votes it represents.

We don't have the largest military force in the world, we just have the best and most deadly one in the world that can and will strike in force if our national leaders want it that way. We do that because we have world arching Air Force and Navy that can project boots on the ground any where in the world and do what the military does other than intimidate, break things and hurt people.

What the military isn't, is an agency that is the best alternative to nation building. We can provide security, build fixed defensible sites, give others arms and material and otherwise support and train those that might lead others, but our foreign military presence is always one of either occupier, human shield or trip wire, all done in lieu of having the natives deal with external threats as they internally work out their political and economic issues, and rarely in the long run, taken as being altruistic and benign by those that are experiencing American arms and personnel.

Permalink Reply by LoveLife&Laughter on February 27, 2014 at 8:28am

It doesn't hurt to have a VP with financial interest(s) with Halliburton.

Isn't it amazing when some people ask, "What is the real reason we invaded Iraq?"

Only cost ~5,000 poor Americans' lives you say, cheap at twice the cost ...

Permalink Reply by exedir on February 27, 2014 at 4:54pm

It is interesting when our "defense" budget is compared to that of other nations. China, The People's Republic that is, doesn't spend any near what we do, however, their "defense" establishment is involved in a a whole range of services and business that are not included, so comparisons are tricky, if not down right deceptive as to what the capability of one military is to another.

Additionally, we, the United States, has and will have treaty and mutual agreements as to what we will do on behalf of that county's external security. Japan is but one example, as is South Korea. This also relieves these countries from what would be otherwise necessary to have a "defense" capability, and as such we, the American taxpayer pay.

Much of this has been a good investment in that peace is profitable, sorta. For us, a generation that grew up with the Soviet Union and Communist China, our parents were a part of an economic boom that was helped along by the need to rebuild Europe, Asia and other parts of the world devastated by the Nazis and Imperial Japan in WWII. Our genius at the time was our generosity which also was in our own self-interests economically and politically at the time.

But times have changed.

There may be Russians left in the Russian Federation but no more Soviets. There may be a China still on the map with a red star, but their new beachhead is WalMart and American customers. And one thing they sell us is our own flag.....just saying.

Obama is fed up with Karzai ...

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