Which one is worse?

[base2final]

Here's an interesting summation from the N Y Post:

When I first saw the headline saying Bill Clinton was advising President Obama to “honor his commitment,” I had to laugh. The idea of Monica Lewinsky’s boyfriend as moral referee always cracks me up.

Then I got to wondering. Which commitment was Clinton talking about?

Is it the one Obama made to the Israeli people, that he had their backs and would never let Iran get a nuclear weapon? Or was it his promise to enforce a “red line” in Syria?

Or maybe it was Obama’s promise to “never rest” until we caught the terrorists who killed our ambassador and three other Americans in Libya?

Or was Clinton talking about the many times the president said he would “never rest” until every American who wanted a job had one?

Or maybe he was talking about the pledge to change the tone in Washington? Or to go through the budget “line by line” and cross out the waste driving up the deficit?

You get the picture — any of those whoppers would qualify. But, of course, Clinton was talking about the broken promise of the moment, the one where Obama vowed that “if you like your health insurance, you can keep it.”

It ranks as one of the biggest presidential lies of modern times, all the more so because Obama repeated it 30 times. The fallout of millions being forced from their policies, an experience exacerbated by the hapless Web site, has created a crisis of confidence so vast, it threatens to swallow the second term.

http://nypost.com/2013/11/13/obamas-latest-broken-promise-is-destro...

[LoveLife&Laughter]

 

 These are the kinds of lies  I tried to explain to A4L.  This isn’t just political license…

• Does Iran have a nuclear weapon?
• Does Syria have any more chemical weapons?
• How many of Obama's jobs bills were killed by Republicans?  How many jobs bills has the R Congress passed?
• Obama already got one out of 2 tries.  How much u want to bet he gets the other two just like Bin Laden??
• Obama has kissed butt trying to change the tone, how have Rs helped?  Kenyan?  Muslim?  Paling around with terrorists?  Death Panels?  Socialist?  Communist?  
• Yeah, Clinton had a girlfriend.  Too bad you never have.

What lies like these are the Left promoting about the right Ben?

[Snagg]

Base is a PERFECT example of how the modern GOP has morphed into a blinkered religious cult.

Any opposing or contradicting data is ignored and dismissed; Every time the dogma is conclusively shown to be flawed and dishonest, the only acceptable response is to change the subject; To never, EVER admit a mistake (let alone a plain-as-day lie); Stubbornly clinging to lies is proudly garbled into an admirable, "proof-of-faith" virtue, and not as, well, stubbornly clinging to lies. And the refusal to see any other possible way of doing things other than the hard-right way is seen not just as a demonstration of integrity and devotion to "the cause", but as a necessary step towards a divine reward. To even question the dogma is a one-way ticket to a dire promise of damnation.

It really, really WORKS, too - On stupid people, that is.

Seriously, the only reason I write these posts is just to exercise my rhetorical skills. I KNOW that base is far too much a lying pussy to ever respond to them. He just scours a handful of right-wing dingbat sites, scoops up another armful of garbage, scuttles over here and dumps it on our nice clean floor - And then he scurries back for more. It's much less of a brave patriot protecting his country than it is a mindless rat instinctively hoarding trash to line his burrow.....

All this, too, will be glibly ignored. The countdown begins now: Base's next ginned-up, phony-outrage shovel-load of 100% FAUXNews-provided bullshit in 5...4..3...

[base2final]

I would formally like to request that you be thrown out of this group Snagg. Is not calling someone a lying pussy a personal attack? Where is the group moderator?? I thought we could attack the message and not the messenger???

[Snagg]

Base: As long as you refer to liberals as "lefties", "trash" and "liars", you've got nothing to be getting high and mighty about.

But then, that's one of THE most telling signs of teabaggers and right-wing loudmouths: They LOVE to dish it out, but go snivelling and whining to a moderator when it's time for them to take it - All while calling those who have hit back "hypocrites".

[LoveLife&Laughter]

 I know for a fact that the moderator is a proud lying pussy.

[base2final]

Don’t argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience

[Snagg]

Base may have a point...I feel a few IQ points less informed with every post he makes.

[LoveLife&Laughter]

Base has been beating us to death LOL...

[A4L]

As far as we know Iran does not presently have a nuclear weapon that they can presently fire on people I am guessing from what I have heard. Are they closer to getting to it now then 5 years ago? I am also guessing, yes. But I am open to finding out that I am wrong.

Should we be waiting until they get a weapon that they can used?

I would think probably not. But to be fair, in a situation like this, the US may be working behind the scenes and doing what may need to be done to address it. I honestly don't know, and that is where we can all speculate, which is why I usually go in to my diatribes, because the only things I am confident about are my thoughts and my reasonings.

But I don't think the gist of Base's post is without some factuality, and therefore coming from the opposite side seems warranted. It obviously irritates some, but there is plenty of blow back I hear.

On Syria, yes, I think you make an excellent point! The overall result here is that it seems that progress was made in that arena and the line in the sand did play a part. So I think your point satisfies quite a bit. But again Bush and every republican president has been questioned and challenged and verbally cold cocked by democrats over the years. Especially W. So was there reason to question the whole red line thing when it happened? Yes there were wavering dimensions to that.

On the Obama jobs bills killed by the Republicans. That I am curious about? I had heard that many proposals Obama made were killed by the democratic Senate like on budgets and things.

I am open to hear the details of the jobs bills killed that you are referring to.

On the tone issue. The Kenyans, Muslim, and Terrorists comments do not account for much if any dialog of the elected officials. Was there a day that Bush was not called Hitler or spoken about in like manner. When I would listen to NPR I got the impression that anything bad that happened to anybody on the planet was the result of some rotten thing Bush did.

Socialist? Even on Eons I was informed by Schoolboy of the many good things that socialism is doing and that this country already has in place. So noting that Obama has surely added to the socialistic element in our nation at present seems at least reasonably accurate to some degree. Communist is probably going to far.

The notion that the Tea Party are mostly all racist is not proven. Constantly the left tries to demonize the right as extremists and any number of other terms to discredit them rather than just engage in debate. I respect the arguments that you make about in favor of the ACA. I don't need to rail about. Or I don't want to. Don't want to challenge people but ideas.

[LoveLife&Laughter]

Should we be waiting until they get a weapon that they can used? 

Kerry/Obama has already spent more time with Iranians then the US has in the last 34 years as of yesterday.  You’re a believer, if you want a miracle sprinkle pixie dust and clap your hands.
 

Many proposals Obama made were killed by the democratic Senate like on budgets and things.  

Here goes the right wing lie machine.  You know very well the Senate Republicans have filibustered anything and everything in order to cripple Obama from doing anything.

I am open to hear the details of the jobs bills killed that you are referring to. 

Sure, haven’t heard of any.  That is less than honest my friend.  Have you ever heard of the internet?  Senate Republicans kill third Obama Jobs Bill

 

 

Was there a day that Bush was not called Hitler or spoken about in like manner.   

What other American President has unilaterally preemptively invaded a peaceful sovereign nation that posed no threat to our national security with Republican lies and distortions excuses (WMD).  Ask that black guy he sent to the UN with that bu__ sh__ how he feels about it.  Comparing Bush to Hitler is fair.  And Geighas Khan.  Would you prefer Geighes Khan?

  

The notion that the Tea Party are mostly all racist is not proven.  

Don’t you long for the old days when, if your presidential candidates didn’t win, there was compromise for the good of our nation? Not anymore. The personal attacks against this president have been inconceivable.  Perhaps members of the Tea Party might gain a modicum of responsibility and respectability if they would admit to racism instead of denying the ever-present evidence. A civil, intelligent black man won two elections. Get over it!

 

[A4L]

"That is less than honest my friend."-LLL

It is not at all less than honest. I did not remember this but you have refreshed my memory, and I thank you for it. Why would I ask you to put the info out here if I wanted to avoid it? 
But the crux is that we interpret these events so differently. 


In these instances the republicans were voting against more spending. This is in your article:



"All 47 Republicans in the chamber voted against the Democrats’ bill, as did Sen. Ben Nelson, Nebraska Democrat, and Sen. Joe Lieberman, Connecticut independent who caucuses with Democrats and who said raising taxes only to turn around and spend the money immediately will hurt the efforts of lawmakers looking to reduce long-term debt.

“Unless we can put our economy on sound financial footing by reigning in our debt, all additional stimulus efforts will be for naught,” Mr. Lieberman said."-Article

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/3/senate-gop-shoots-do...
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

Acting like the president can not do anything because another party that has a different view acts in consort with that view seems a little over demonstrative. The democrats vote against tons of things that republicans initiate. And it has been this way all along. One could easily declare that they have blocked everything that the republicans have tried to put forward, as if to say that this is some sort of complete aberration.

I have brought this up before, and I think it still seems logical to me. In the last 5 years has more legislation been enacted that reflects democrat policy positions or republican positions?

If it is decidedly more democrat policies, than it is safe to say that for the most part government today reflects democrat leaning governing.

Plain and simple. Is this fact or fallacy?

We have spent more, and increased government's reach into more areas.

You can call Bush Hitler, and I don't know the truth of all of those details, but it seems to me if Bush is and was guilty of war crimes, or impeachment, the evidence should be there to the point to have reached that level. I don't pretend to know what I don't know. I have never had any strong allegiance to going into Iraq. I knew that what  I knew was pieces of representations from the sources that I heard. At the time they talked about going in I listened to George Putnam criticize the idea vehemently. Many conservatives that differed from the president's views were shewed out of the inner workings of things. I had questions going in and I still have more questions than answers. But I thought democrats voted to go in as well. I hoped for the best.

As to the Tea Party, again I only know what I know. I have repeatedly tried to formulate my thoughts  on what it is I find valid and valuable regarding the Tea Party. To me the Tea Party represents an idea. That representation is as I have said. Returning to the fundamental basic premises that were the building blocks of our nations founding. That search for independence and the wish to have a union that recognized the inherent historical bent of men wishing for power and fame and money and influence and abusing these attributes where government has much more power than the citizens that it governs, was an aim of the founders to reign in this blemish of character in formulating their government.

http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/when-government-fears-peop...

"Comments: One source attributes this quotation to Thomas Jefferson in The Federalist.^[4] The Federalist, however, was the work of Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, and James Madison; it also does not contain the text of this quotation. This quotation is vaguely similar to Jefferson's comment in an 1825 letter to William Short: "Some are whigs, liberals, democrats, call them what you please. Others are tories, serviles, aristocrats, &c. The latter fear the people, and wish to transfer all power to the higher classes of society; the former consider the people as the safest depository of power in the last resort; they cherish them therefore, and wish to leave in them all the powers to the exercise of which they are competent."^[5] To date however, the most likely source of this quotation appears to be a series of debates on socialism published in 1914, in which John Basil Barnhill said, "Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty."

The debate about racism is a distraction and used because it works.  We can say that every democrat is represented by Bob Filner, or Anthony Weiner. Or try to identify every democrat in history that supported slavery or were overtly racist. Lincoln was a republican.

Abagail Adams felt that God may have punished Americans with dysentery due to the fact of them being slave owners. John Adams had no slaves to the best of my knowledge and was against it as was Benjamin Rush.  "Rush wrote a pamphlet entitled "An Address to the Inhabitants of the British Settlements in America, upon Slave-Keeping," which was a scathing attack not just on the slave trade, but on the entire institution of slavery."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3p458.html

I can not help it if people are prejudiced against different races. I believe prejudice is wrong, but that it exists in most of us in one form or another in different areas. Do you like beautiful women? Why do we even notice or make a distinction? Who here is a saint that is unbiased in all respects?


Please identify yourself?

The best I do is to try to remind myself of what I should like to be based on how I would want others to treat me!

[LoveLife&Laughter]

Those were jobs bills.  Jobs bills cost money.

How come you guys never complained about Reagan/Cheney/Bush spending?  Democrats are cheapskates in comparison.  Clinton paid off the Reagan/Bush deficit,ended with a surplus, Obama has already written off 1/2 the Cheney/Bush43 deficit.  

Stop spending is a lie.  Destroy the Democrat's Presidency is much closer to the truth.

And you know that; another lie my friend.