Proof beyond doubt

[base2final]

Do you remember the President saying "if you like your health care plan you can keep your health care plan.........PERIOD  If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.......PERIOD  ALL the time when you say period, there is no more. That's the sum total......period.

Well now the President is saying that that's not what he said. Don't believe you lying ears and don't believe your lying eyes. He said what he said was  you can keep it if it hasn't changed since the law passed. OOPS NO HE DIDN'T. It's a lie. The audio and the video prove it. This man is so dishonest that even when he is on film he will lie to us about it. 

This is proof beyond a doubt, So what else has he lied to us about? Benghazi? Fast and Furious> The NSA spying? The IRS targeting certain groups? The FBI going after the AP and James Rosen?

http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-denies-saying-you-can-keep-yo...

 

[DragaoDHJ]

Oh please! The President is only guilty of having some poor advisers and he is not the first President to have some.

As for Benghazi. it sort of pales to New York, Washington DC and Pennsylvania on September 11, 2001. The so call mess with the NSA has been going on for decades. All countries are doing it, but they have not been caught yet.

[base2final]

So it seems that the ACA so far has achieved one thing. It was intended to insure the uninsured but so far has forced the cancellation of the policies of the insured. There are now more additional uninsured than the amount of people signing up for health care, and after the new year it will get much worse.

For those in this group who think that the president was misunderstood. What does it mean to you when someone puts the word PERIOD at the end of their sentence? If you like your policy you can keep your policy PERIOD. Seems only a dim wit could mistake the meaning of period!!!!!!!

[ProblemAgain]

your supposition is incorrect. go back and check again cod. you're not getting all the facts in your quest for pejorative anecdotes.

[LoveLife&Laughter]

Haven't we already covered this ad nausea?  Somebody only reads what he says  :0( 

[A4L]

"But while your attention’s fixed on the president’s “mendacity” and “paternalism,” to quote one characteristically overwrought scribe, America’s beloved health insurance industry is demonstrating exactly why we needed reform all along. Certain companies are taking advantage of the political confusion to sell people in the “individual market” far more expensive plans than they need and blame “Obamacare.”-LLL

Just read your reply with this in it, and wanted to say that it was informative and very helpful.
It pretty much all made sense what you said. The lie of the president is still a lie, and it is not good and in no way justifiable or OK. The behavior of the insurance companies help to document just what  you and Problem have been expressing and that type of taking advantage is very bad as well, and I think you gave good examples to make your point in an exceptional manner.

I didn't see where to reply.

Thank you for that.
I want the truth from all sides to be addressed.

That is the only way a we can be represented properly. If we can not get the truth we all suffer in so many ways.

Jimi Hendrix said that: "the truth just gives you something to work with."

I agree! 

A lie gives you worst than nothing!

[LoveLife&Laughter]

 You're kidding, right?  

 We had had enough time to determine who constantly lies if one is really interested.

[A4L]

No I am not kidding.

I in the jury of the court of public opinion. 

I see the side lying overwhelmingly more that trends to the left.

I am willing to admit that I see the right lying as well.


I appreciate all of the info that you put out that backs up your position. And I find it relevant and full of many facts. That is one of the reasons I am here. So that I can try and see more sides to what is going on. Most of the time you and Problem post links that are definitively left without question. You have sites that have Progressive in the title and media sources that are unquestionably pro democrat and anti Republican and especially Tea Party.

The hatred for the Tea Party is expressed by the democrats and the republicans and here as well.

And I don't see the substance. Not in my experience.

We have all seen many cases of history that shows socialistic ruled countries being incredibly cruel to their own citizens.


This country's history is very unique especially in the quest to vie for the freedoms of individuals and limitations on government.

That is what I find to be truly exceptional in view of many other historical examples.

When I have read any of the Tea Parties stated goals, I have seen the main ones to be to overtly in keeping the Constitution central in our thoughts of governing. Low taxation, maximum freedom for individuals to have choices.


I am for promoting truth, and seeing all relevant and reasonable sides being given enough voice to help us understand them and making our votes relevant by knowing what you are voting for and what you can expect, and getting that.

Telling people that you can keep your health care and doctor in order to garner support for your 2600 page bill and then saying that what you really said was.... As Jon Stewart stated, "No what you really said was elipses, etc.....

And I have not yet heard even to this date that there has ever been an admittance made that what was repeatedly stated was false and what was recently stated to adjust what was stated that no one heard back then was patently false.

And the response from those that are pro the ACA is in essence that we are getting something better. Well that is great and I am happy to hear those informative discussions, but it does not negate the deceptive things that have occurred at all, and especially when used to influence an entire nation to go in a direction of one's choosing whether it be good or bad.

And I want the same standard applied equally to every elected official as well.

Why do we not deserve the truth?

I would rather be here trying to create an effective policy that "punishes" people for lying in office, in any way that would help to curtail all lying, to the end that all citizens can get valid info about things that effect their  lives, than fighting over this complicated healthcare deal.

But it is what it is, so we must deal with it.

Your info is helpful, and I try to listen to it regardless of what the source is.

[A4L]

To note:

I do not hear the Democrats trying to bring a central theme of their governing or legislating to be an ever growing focus on the Constitution. Nor do I see the Republicans doing that either, or for that matter the President.

I hear the Tea Party "Alone" making this plea or appeal if you will.

And funny, (speaking generally) everyone hates the Tea Party in Washington and the MSM.

You find me another group that has this focus and has the ability to raise and enlarge that voice and I will like them as well. There is no group that does things perfectly.

But neither the dems or the repubs want to focus on stuff that is going to limit their powers or their wealth in the interests of the American people.  Parts of the Occupy Wall Street did have some elements of this. I'd be for the Tea Party and the Occupiers to work together in areas where they agree.

I had this type of discussion on Eons about finding common ground around that time. And the participant that I spoke with found agreement with me and I with her on issues like getting rid of lobbyists, term limits, and ending the legalized insider trading in Washington.

Back then they passed a bill about the insider trading, and we both spoke about it and were happy. I noted at the time that I doubted that it would go through and not have some loophole/s.

Here is Genk Uygur:

http://youtu.be/zZp76ut0ntI

Everything he said here I found agreement with!


Washington does not want to play by the same rules that you and I have to play by, and this is the same government that some on the left seem to want me to kneel down and pay homage to!

Tell me, where is the group of people, the voices, and the power going to come from to hold this Constitutionally bound group of elected officials accountable to us, yes, "We the people!"

Who is representing this cause?

If we badger each other about, this stuff continues unchecked.

If we tried to be united in at least the basic precepts of honesty and accountability, it would serve all of us well!!!

I don't need you to agree with me on health care. I don't want you to agree with me, cause in some areas I do believe you are right, yet in others I don't.

Look LLL (Fred), I believe that you are a beautiful man with a great heart! A great love for animals and for others and an awesome beautiful wife!

I can't help that you don't see things properly as I do. Just kidding!!!

OK, We have not come to the same conclusions.

But in fact, you are wonderful and I always will look up to you as someone that I learn from and admire.

And I definitely want to say:

"Thank you so much for your service to this country!"

Have a wonderful Veterans Day!!!

[LoveLife&Laughter]

Who hates whom????

My side doesn't hate anything, we may disagree.  You can see that everywhere.

The hatred of the right towards anything Democratic is a non stop daily grind which is just too easy to prove.

Even you.

[A4L]

"My side doesn't hate anything, we may disagree.  You can see that everywhere."-LLL

Same here, so we are good!!!

:0)

[ProblemAgain]

"Washington does not want to play by the same rules that you and I have to play by, and this is the same government that some on the left seem to want me to kneel down and pay homage to!"

this is unsubstantiated hyperbole....there is not a case made that anyone wants this. the claim is a 'glittering generality'. i expect better of you so please, if you will, can the slogans and the bumper stickers. those aren't useful at all when trying to discuss anything but only serve to inspire fellow tribesmen. empty language does not carry meaning....an example?

"The plan is to allow those things that had been proposed over many years to reform a health-care system in America that certainly does need more help so that there's more competition, there's less tort reform threat, there's less trajectory of the cost increases, and those plans have been proposed over and over again,"

[A4L]

My comment is the feeling that I get from a number of folks that anything "government" is good, that bigger is fine with no limits, and to want limits on government is in essence anti good.

It expressed a feeling of pressure to conform and submit.

It is not intended towards those that do not feel that way.