TBD on Ning
Worse than we thought, and getting worse!!!
Some in this group try to be supportive and blindly defend the ACA, even in the face of growing problems. Well here's a little more evidence that what is becoming factual is not what we were all told. My feeling is that if a few spokes in the wheel were broken, than why try to fix the entire wheel? Why not be honest with the American people unless of course that being honest would have stopped this law from being passed?
The left can try and deflect blame to the Republicans, but this law is 100% Democrat. Remember when Scott Brown was elected to the Senate from one of the most liberal states with the purpose of voting against the ACA? Harry Reid changed the number of yes votes needed to pass the law from 60 Senators to 50. Remember the Louisiana purchase? Remember the back room promises? Remember the total number of Republican yes votes?
Maybe the far left progressives in this group who are trying to defend this debacle know more than the majority of the Americans who from day one have been against this law. My guess is that they don't. They just don't have the balls to admit when something their party did is going bas. Can you imagine for one second the outcry if Bush had forced this on the country?
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HEALTH_OVERHAUL_YOURE_CAN...
Views: 131
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by LoveLife&Laughter on
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As usual base's posts are baseless
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Permalink Reply by redhand on
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Worse than we thought, and getting worse!!!
Ooops, 'scuse me, I thought this was a post about teabagger posts.
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Permalink Reply by ProblemAgain on
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Conservative groups driving GOP agenda
By STEVE PEOPLES and PHILIP ELLIOTT 2 hours ago.
WASHINGTON (AP) — Virtually unknown outside Washington, a coalition of hardline conservative groups is fighting to seize control of the Republican agenda.
Tea party allies like the Club for Growth, FreedomWorks and Heritage Action for America showed their might by insisting that the GOP embrace the government shutdown that hurt the nation's economy and the party's reputation.
Now emboldened, these groups are warning that their aggressive agenda-pushing tactics aren't over — and they're threatening retribution against Republicans who stand in their way.
"They refuse to learn," Chris Chocola, a former Indiana congressman who leads the Club for Growth, says of lawmakers who buck the will of right-leaning groups. He predicts that his group will support primary challengers to more than a dozen Republican incumbents seeking re-election next fall.
Mainstream GOP groups — such as Karl Rove's American Crossroads or the party's formal campaign committees — question their more conservative counterparts' role, fed up by their outsized influence in shaping the party's current agenda.
For decades, interest groups like the National Rifle Association have shaped debates on single issues. But Republicans suggest that not since the Christian Coalition of the 1990s have outside forces played such a sweeping, integral role in guiding Republican priorities as the tea party-led fiscal conservatives have in the ongoing budget debate.
"You have a small group in Congress that has become the surrender caucus," argues Illinois Rep. Adam Kinzinger. "They've surrendered their voting card to the wishes of these outside groups."
Such divisions on display between the Republican Party's pragmatic and ideological wings — and their affiliated outside groups — carry huge risk for the GOP heading into the 2014 midterm congressional elections. Republicans will seek to win power in the Senate and preserve their narrow House majority next fall.
But primaries that leave eventual nominees battered and broke for the general election could hamper that goal.
Nevertheless, tea party-aligned groups already are spending millions of dollars calling on compromise-minded Republican lawmakers from New Hampshire to Idaho to embrace more aggressive tactics against President Barack Obama's agenda.
This is their message as Congress wrestles with health care implementation, considers immigration reform and gets ready for new rounds of debt talks: Republicans who work with the Democratic president do so at their peril.
It appears that no Republican is too large for these groups.
The Senate Conservatives Fund — founded by tea party hero and former South Carolina Sen. Jim DeMint — has launched television ads against Republican leaders, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, who helped craft the recent budget compromise that ended the shutdown. It also has criticized Sen. Jeff Flake of Arizona and Sen. Jonny Isakson of Georgia.
The Club for Growth also is targeting Oregon Rep. Greg Walden, despite his role as leader of the campaign committee charged with preserving the Republican House majority. The group already has launched a website entitled, "Primary My Congressman," and so far identified 10 potential campaigns to unseat Republican incumbents.
That group and others also are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to support a challenge against longtime Republican Sen. Thad Cochran, of Mississippi, in hopes of persuading him to retire. And the Tea Party Patriots is going after Sen. John Cornyn of Texas, Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois and Sen. Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire.
Behind the scenes, GOP campaign officials are urging donors to fund mainstream groups to counter the conservative outfits. These officials are doing so even as they question the right-flank's ultimate effectiveness, given that its groups, although vocal, typically have far less money compared with other organizations standing with Republicans from the establishment wing.
http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/bb99e1fed3e3e124410f6..." alt="FILE - This Oct. 12, 2006 file photo shows former Indiana …" title="" class="body-related-thumb" height="207px" width="300px"/>
The most powerful Republican allies from the last election — mainstream Republican groups such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, American Crossroads and its sister organization Crossroads GPS — poured more than $212 million combined into the 2012 election. Combined, the Club for Growth, Heritage Action and the Senate Conservatives Fund spent $21 million.
National GOP officials are watching for signs of rifts among the right-leaning groups, which could dilute their power. The shutdown debate itself exposed at least one disagreement.
The Club for Growth, FreedomWorks and Heritage Action for America defiantly insisted that any deal to end the shutdown and raise the nation's debt ceiling must dismantle or delay Obama's health care law. Lawmakers who didn't stand them with them risked inviting primary challenges.
But some tea party allies like Americans for Prosperity, the group funded by conservative billionaires Charles and David Koch, opposed the tactics that led to the shutdown. Now that group is trying to move on, investing $2 million in a four-state ad campaign that hammers Democrats over the troubled health care law implementation.
"We're convinced that repealing Obamacare is long-term effort," AFP president Tim Phillips says, explaining why it didn't sign onto the right-flank's demands to defund the law as part of a budget compromise.
In a sign of another possible crack in the conservative coalition, a spokesman for Heritage Action for America says that in the near future, it likely will focus its health care criticism on Democrats, who stood together during the shutdown debate.
"There needs to be some breaks in that unity," says Heritage spokesman Dan Holler. "That may happen naturally, or it may need to be forced."
But Chocola said the Club for Growth wouldn't stop pressuring Republicans, particularly as congressional leaders begin to debate a new budget package.
Chocola wouldn't rule out another push to link such legislation to the president's health care law, but said his group might shift its strategy if major shifts to entitlement programs are included.
As the possibility of a shutdown loomed large in September, the network of GOP outside groups disagreed over strategy.
Crossroads officials briefed members of Congress on internal polling that showed the shutdown strategy deeply unpopular. Given that, the group and its fellow mainstream Republican allies largely stayed silent, fearing influential talk show radio hosts and aggressive conservative activists would brand them as heretics.
Meanwhile, conservative groups grew even more vocal in pressuring House and Senate Republicans to refuse to budge from tea party demands to defund "Obamacare" as part of any budget deal.
Eventually, House Speaker John Boehner broke with the right flank and endorsed the bipartisan plan to end the 16-day shutdown and raise the debt limit. And 87 Republicans in the House and 18 in the Senate supported it.
The damage to the GOP was severe: a Washington Post-ABC News poll found that 63 percent of Americans now have a negative view of the Republican Party, the worst rating for the GOP in almost three decades.
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notice that......
a Washington Post-ABC News poll found that 63 percent of Americans now have a negative view of the Republican Party, the worst rating for the GOP in almost three decades.
after all the hooplah and bullshit, the blame falls where it belongs....on the far right republicans...and the republican party is tainted by not standing up to these zealots
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Permalink Reply by base2final on
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So how many Republicans voted for the ACA???
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None. They are bought and paid for by the Corporations, although their behavior this time is perplexing.
The American Healthcare Industry CEOs wants, supports, and lobbies for the ACA. It's a windfall for the Insurance Companies and CEOs, et.al.
Why does the Tea Bagger bite the hand that feeds them instead of sucking up?
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and i guess you don't read any responses...or anything we post as a rebuttal
Obamacare's Disastrous Debut Hasn't Changed Americans' Feelings About the Law
Photograph by Yoon S. Byun/The Boston Globe via Getty Images
Cathey Park of Cambridge, center, watches President Obama speak at Faneuil Hall to bolster support for his national health care law in Boston on Oct. 30
You’d think the bungled debut of healthcare.gov—turns out only six people managed to enroll in health plans on the first day—would sour Americans’ opinion of health reform. Not so much, according to the latest poll from the Kaiser Family Foundation.
The chunk of Americans who didn’t like the Affordable Care Act before the launch still don’t; no surprise there. That number has consistently been a bit above 40 percent since early 2011. The slightly smaller share of people who support the law also didn’t budge, coming in around 38 percent, consistent with the past two years. Both numbers are statistically unchanged since last month, given the poll’s margin of error of plus or minus three percentage points.
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Permalink Reply by A4L on
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Read some of these comments.
And looked at the Kaiser article:I definitely would "Not" say that base's post is baseless. It may have been offensive to some, and may be very partisan, but I do not believe it to be baseless.
If we remember that our form of government was intended to be "representative" than it is entirely a matter of substance when the polls repeatedly show that a monstrous legislation passed that is supported by less than half of the American people. The fact that if even an exact 50% to 50% were in favor and opposed in the case of this type of legislation that is to have such a large effect on 300 million people plus, and be so transformative, it is not in any sense a good thing for the country overall.
Having the country So Divided is no big win!
How can two walk together except they agree?When these states vied for independence from England the vote was quite close to unanimous. They had some unity of purpose. "We pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."
No matter which side you are on, you can not tell me that it's of greater benefit to have half of the people in the country feeling like they are being literally being driven into a system that they do not want, or the other half feeling like half of the country is unhappy and miserable about the legislation and that many want to negate and oppose and dismantle or block the direction that they feel is a positive one.I challenge anyone here to tell me that we would not be better off had we worked together to formulate some type of change that could have had an honest acceptance from a majority of 60 or 70%.
We have to live with this reality!
Of what benefit is it to attack one another?
If that is the best we can do I can only wish for a divorce.
A divorce is better than two bloody corpses.
You really want to do something transformative? Just divide the country into two countries based on peoples wishes for the type of government that more represents them.I would be for that in a minute. I don't want to be dragged into this constant divisive, wedge issue free fall. I see no winners for the country overall in what is going on. I wish I could support your side, so I welcome every positive attempt to just enlighten people to the benefits of the legislation and help keep both sides' well intentioned views forefront. If there are possibilities to evolve the legislation in a way that will find more honest and true support by a greater majority and help alleviate a greater number of people's fears and suffering that still would be great. But I still don't see how we get there by being disgusted with our opposing counterparts, and insulting one another.So that is still my message and agenda here.
But here are some more tidbits from the same article about the Kaiser polls to note that we do not have a one sided picture with only a handful of malcontents.
"The law continues to be viewed through a partisan lens, and Republicans give even lower ratings to the federal government when it comes to implementing the law. Still, even among Democrats, majorities feel the federal government is doing “only fair” or “poor” when it comes to implementation. Ratings of state governments in this area are similar across parties."
"overall views of the ACA have held relatively steady since last month, with 44 percent saying they have an unfavorable view of the law, 38 percent a favorable view, and 18 percent saying they don’t know enough to say."
"A solid majority of the public (60 percent) say they oppose the idea of cutting off funding as a way to stop the law from being implemented, and a higher share would like to see Congress expand the law or keep it as is (47 percent) rather than repeal it (37 percent). Partisan divisions are as deep as ever, with four in ten Democrats saying the want Congress to expand the law, and a similar share of Republicans (42 percent) wanting to see the law repealed and not replaced.""Most of the public (64 percent) continues to say that they haven’t been personally impacted by the health care law so far,"
"though the share saying they’ve been negatively impacted is somewhat higher than the share who feel they’ve personally benefited"
"(23 percent versus 14 percent)"
This last statistic that seems like it is an aside is not even close to 50/50.
It is closer to double saying that they have been "negatively" impacted than those benefited than the 50 to 50% mark.
I don't see how all of the fighting over this thing can simply go away.
Isn't that as plain as day to see?
If a majority even though small oppose this legislation than it is not the fault of the representatives to be caught in this quagmire of trying to oppose it if they are doing there jobs as "Representatives."
And I truly doubt that if all of the republicans today said that they now like the ACA and just want to support it, that it would generate a single democrat switching parties to become republican.
Anyone here ready to do that?
I think I can guess that it is highly unlikely.
So I don't really care at all that the republicans are so divided, because it is just the reality that they are dealing with. And if the party splits into two, I don't care either, cause if you say you are for lower taxes and smaller government like Bush and then you just increase the size of government like Bush did you just are saying that these things are slogans and that you don't really believe them, or that they don't work in real life. The party can't help but be divided when you have people promising to do one thing and then they do the opposite once they are in office.
Reality just is.
The reality is that the ACA was not a major bipartisan bill, and we all are suffering from it in how much division it helps create between us. -
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the reality is the ACA bill passed by votes of both the senate and the house of representatives and was then signed into law by the president. meantime for the last 5 years, you have had the right side of the boat trying to row everything in reverse rather than work to improve anything. remember the quote from mitch mcconnell? "the number one goal of the republican party is to make obama a one term president." the fact that it didn't happen does not ameliorate the vitriol that has been heaped upon anyone who is not in the tribe of the republicans the last 5 years. libtards.......on and on....and if you want to get right down to it, remember the "if islam is a religion of peace, why don't the moderates condemn the extremists and the terrorists?" that can also be applied to "why don't the republican moderates condemn the wackos who are trying to hijack the party and refuse to abide by the democratic process if they don't like the outcome?"
as a point of fact, look back at the passage of the civil rights acts and tell me if they should have rescinded those because of the division they caused? the ACA could be viewed as a civil rights act in the context of trying to provide medical care for all americans, not just the lucky and the wealthy
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Problem you are perfectly welcome to think anything that you want of course.
But as I felt I noted. The facts are that the representatives were elected to represent the will of the people. The democrats won the presidency. They also won the Senate. The republicans won the house.
No mountain of words can address and trying to put a promo package on things one way or another will eliminate the differences that exist on these realities.
And yes, I have heard those words that people from the right uses to denigrate people on the left and I have heard also words that the left uses to denigrate those on the right.
My assessment is: "Distraction."
It does not serve anyone well or accomplish anything good as far as I can see.
As with much of this political stuff, we run in circles bringing up the wrongs of the other side. We get propaganda from both sides that says the other side is factually in error. We remember history with strong leanings that accentuate the bad or perceived bad of one side and fail to note the failings or less than ethical maneuverings of our side.
I can play that game too. But as I run it through my head I can often hear the other side making the same sort of argument that I am making from the opposite position.
I see no winners in just trying to battle with another citizen that disagrees with me using a bludgeoning device.
First of all, we all are the subjects of whatever our government enacts. We can say it is not only the right of the House to do everything in it's power to stop the ACA but that it is it's duty. And than you can say that they are trying to block and this and that.
So, where does this get us?
It sure does not make me see that government is some kind of Golden Scepter with a moral compass that operates beyond the likes of average citizens and thereby leaves me ready and willing to fall down and worship in submission and adoration.
You actually think that a government that passes a 2600 page health care bill that could not be read thoroughly nor understood the ramifications of, is representing my wishes or anyone else's for that matter?
This and other examples of the obliteration of the citizens' voice will never be rectified through acts of ignoring them or bypassing further the voices of citizens.
Ain't going to happen.
The only option other than force is for good people to consider that we have more to loose by quarreling with one another than by working that much harder to try and listen and understand each other. That's how I see it.
I totally can get how LLL was shit on with his health care and that this law is supposed to remedy that. That is awesome! And I am glad about that. But I do not believe that all of these reports of people suffering negative results which was verified by your article are a bunch of phony stories.
So my question is how can more people want to see both sides of these issues and promote addressing all suffering, and have a major sharing in transparent forms to find out if we can push forward to benefit everybody.
Let's see a week televised debating with Dr. Ben Carson and Kathleen Sebellius on how we can find ways to make the nation better. Or any number of experts from both different sides talk and explain what we really have. Separate the propaganda from the reality.
The facts are on your side is what I seem to always hear. Then putting this in full public view, with no one being able to have any more time than the other side to go through all of this is what is needed.
You want a 2600 page bill to infiltrate this country and indoctrinate all US citizens into it's complete devise, and you want everyone to keep quiet and not question or raise objections, then you need to be dead sure that it says everything and affects everyone as you feel is for the best, and you should be more than happy to defend it or have it defended by those most capable.
I would be good with seeing all of these differing factions explain or express their view points and ask questions and get to the bottom of all of these issues, and do it in the open daylight and make sure that everyone has the opportunity to get all of these things clarified and understood if one wants to, just by watching a thorough discussion and interrogation of the bill that is recorded for all to see. Let them go page by page, or subject by subject. At least we could put to rest some arguing. One could say, just check out hour 35 of the ACA analysis and debate where that is dealt with.
What do you think is going to make this better? Not what do you want people to do.
And I wish people would actually answer some of my questions once in a while. At least a couple.:0)
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i did answer your questions. you don't like the answer.
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