Define Hypocrisy for me...

[LoveLife&Laughter]

1. Guess how many Republican said NO! to aid for Hurricane Sandy victims but want us to give them aid to their state Colorado for flooding victims, Texas after the refinery explosion, etc?

2. Guess how many Republicans get Farm Aid subsidies but vote against the same bill providing food stamps for starving people in their own state?

[exedir]

It is also a definition of politics, those of constituent building and vote buying, a tradition of all politicians from the start of time with the sharing of the kill by the chiefs or, those that want to be chiefs and stay chiefs.

As to Sandy, that happened in blue states, and as to food stamps that was blue also in the it was the 47% of the takers and probably blue state voters.

And yes, there is, and always has been a disconnect with leadership and politics, risk taking and risk avoidance, and the advantage of leading from behind so as to be popular and be able to blame the other guy.  

Is there a relationship of having the same believably of a politician as the same as a used car salesman?  Unfortunately, that serves to leave a slur on the used car business. 

[ProblemAgain]

[A4L]

Define hypocrisy.

Putting together a bill that is so long that no one who votes on it knows what they are voting for or against, and pretending to be carrying out one's duty to represent those who have elected them.

But somehow I am guessing someone may have a problem with what I have said. Maybe not? But can anyone tell me why or how voting for something that you can not understand would be construed to be either honorable, wise, or an act of faithfulness to your duty to represent the American people?

Just asking.

I have a real hard time trying to imagine that if I was hired by you, that I would feel I had done a good job for you by advising you to spend your money on something that I had no expertise in to make me qualified to make such a recommendation.

But I try to reason things out based on simple and easily understood and evident facts.

It may be that that is off track somehow. Maybe it is a malformation that I was born with.

I really guess that I shouldn't comment because I doubt that anyone wants to hear it.

So, if so. I will be happy to stop. I am just putting this out here with the thought that potentially someone may want to have an enlightening discussion.

If that is the case, I would enjoy it very much.

I'd be curious to know if anyone agrees with what I have said. And also curious to know why anyone who disagrees with what I said would explain why it doesn't make sense.:0)

[LoveLife&Laughter]

1.  We have the most expensive healthcare in the world.  Most people can no longer afford it.  Solution:  Universal Health Care like every other Western Civilized Nation who pay 30-50% of what we do.  Good idea, no?

2. Our Healthcare is a big part of our debt and deficit and growing worse.  Solution: Universal Health Care which will lower the deficit (CBO).  Good idea, no?

3. I'm sure you and yours are already experiencing some of the benefits of the ACA like they cancel your insurance if you get sick like they did me or refuse you insurance for "pre-condition" like they did me.  Good idea, no?

4. "I have a real hard time trying to imagine that if I was hired by you, that I would feel I had done a good job for you by advising you to spend your money on something that I had no expertise in to make me qualified to make such a recommendation."

WhoTF is that?  Nothings changed.  The Insurance Companies, expensive middle men, which you claim are medicine experts, are still in charge.  They love the ACA, it's a $$$ windfall for them -- more customers. It's hard to explain to a conservative but, NOTHING'S CHANGED!  

5. Yes we have people who will agree with your only real complaint, your IDEOLOGY that makes no sense is insulted like it was ith SS and Medicare / medicaid.  Things you and yours are going to need if you already aren't.  It's an insurance plan, that's all.

[LoveLife&Laughter]

[A4L]

I actually like your response Uncle LLL. It generally doesn't say much about about my issue of "representative government," and whether it is functioning well, which is my point. But it definitely addresses the overall issue of healthcare, which I do think is pertinent, and I truly appreciate your putting into it personal experience, because I feel that that is one reality that each one of us can actually be an expert about. Of course I appreciate the "insults" since I find it somewhat heartwarming and done in a "good spirit."

So I applaud you on your commentary!!!

The other reason I like it, is because it is informative and makes very good points.

"The Insurance Companies, expensive middle men, which you claim are medicine experts, are still in charge.  They love the ACA, it's a $$$ windfall for them -- more customers. It's hard to explain to a conservative but, NOTHING'S CHANGED!"

None of this I like.

What I agree on is that problems exist that merit trying to make changes and adjustments to.
What I don't agree with is trying to do a bill of such magnitude, in a manner that bypasses the kind of time needed to allow the transparent discussions and debates that could have been a part of this thing, to help put together a bill that is understood by most of the citizens that are "supposed" to be represented in doing the whole thing. After all, much of this thing is still not yet active.

I do not feel that the only way to have improved some of the health care issues was to put government so "central' to so much.


But what matters to me now that I am interested in is continuing to have "open discussions" that help inform people and allow people with differing and opposing views to honestly put out questions and opinions and to try and get answers.

Ignorance is a "key" word. I am ignorant. The representatives (so called) were ignorant passing the bill.
Most people are ignorant today of all of the ramifications.

Who here has read the whole thing and really understands it in it's entirety and it's effects? 2700 pages? Over 13,000 pages of new laws (probably way more).

So yes, I would say "ignorance" is a "key" word.

To me the whole activity of keeping the majority of people ignorant is incredibly troubling and consternating!

And when one talks about "Dictating," of course that would fit the bill if the central government is in the position of enacting legislation that is not understood by the public that they are sworn to represent.

So the effect is to encourage these nonsensical divisions between people, when people are more arguing who the they believe, which is not debatable rather than spending more time with the logistics of what we are trying to accomplish.

I am more interested in people from all sides sharing information and breaking down walls that divide us because I feel that it is in our best interests overall.

I doubt that anyone here will be able to say that much of what I said makes no sense or has no point. At least to me it seems "matter of fact." 2700 pages = I haven't read it, so I don't know.

Here is a list of jobs supposedly lost.

Are these factually right or wrong? All of them? And then in the link other issues are brought up.

People hear this and read it.

I assume these are generally accurate, but maybe they are not.?

But my point again besides the lack of "representative government" is the "mass ignorance."

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/grusbf5/the-obamacare-job-graveyard

Lost Jobs

Welch Allyn, a company that manufactures medical diagnostic equipment in central New York, laid off 275 employees this year, and planned on dropping roughly 10% of their workforce over the next three years.

"Health care reform mandates" are to blame for up to 400 jobs being dropped at Orlando Health.

One of the biggest medical device manufacturers in the world, Stryker confirmed 1,000 jobs were lost due to Obamacare.

Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center cited "the challenges of health care reform" while announcing the elimination of 950 jobs.

The medical device tax also claimed positions at Boston Scientific.  The company first announced in 2011 that they would be cutting between 1,200 and 1,400 positions.  Then in January of this year, they announced further layoffs for up to 1,000 employees.

Smith & Nephew, a global medical technology firm, dropped 100 employees.

A Blue Cross/Blue Shield health insurance office was closed, resulting in another 100 or so employees hitting the unemployment lines.  The reason? Complexities in federal regulations and mandates implemented by Obamacare.

In March of 2010, medical device maker Medtronic warned that Obamacare taxes could result in a reduction of precisely 1,000 jobs.  That plan became reality when the company cut 500 positions, and scheduled another 500 by the end of the fourth quarter in 2013.


I appreciate any information that anyone wants to offer, whether it is for or against!

I absolutely do not like the way things are being governed, but I truly don't know what the good and the bad is of the ACA. And I want to hear all sides.

Thank you for sharing!

[exedir]

Most people, and most rational people probably, really don't want a frank and informed discussion on health care, either as to cost, provision and results.  It is too complicated, too personal and to full of whats, if and whereas....and in the end, at great cost, you will still die.

So, a it is a dark and stormy subject which, when it comes down to it, what does it mean to you, your family and those that either depend on you or love and know you and those that are important to you.

However, one of the basic and most pertinent facts is, that what we spend on things related to health care, in our economy, represents over 17% of the Gross National Product, and this number is the greatest share of national expenditures of any other country in the world.  Whereas our results, if longevity is the measuring stick, we are not in the top ten of countries in the world.  This is not necessarily only a result of what we buy in health care, but, it also the cost of our way of living and life style that impacts on our health and safety, and ultimately how we live our lives and how long we live those lives. 

And yes, it is complicated.

[LoveLife&Laughter]

17% ?  Universal Healthcare would cost 7-9% .  But rightist ideology is against "socialism"

Let me know when you figure out what you really want.

[ProblemAgain]

and the healthcare debate has been going on for over 100 years....teddy roosevelt attempted to have a national health program back in 1912 as part of his run for president..somewhere it must be embedded in some part of a lizard brain residue that the poor don't deserve healthcare. and most people are relatively ignorant of the realities of health care which is that regardless of how great your insurance is there are limits and the insurance BUSINESS has been in charge of health care for at least 50 years

[A4L]

I think your comments make a lot of sense.


The more complicated things are and the less defined, while trusting another behemoth government that is stalemated with opposition from constituents and special interests to become the hub of this is not a comforting thought. And for good reason. 

Here is an article about the unions in Forbes. It supports your point about it being complicated.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/16/behind-the-sce...

"Behind The Scenes Of Obama's Effort To Prevent The AFL-CIO From Resolving To Repeal Obamacare"

The fact that I hear that congress has exempted themselves definitely does nothing to assure me of the concept of good governing nor of the thoughtfulness or thoroughness of whats in the bill or how it was put  together.

Would we consider it "good medicine" to operate on a patient with such a huge gap in knowing what results we can expect?

And yet this bill does affect many lives in a very definitive way.

I totally agree with people that feel that our health care system warranted being addressed. And I can understand and appreciate how some people concluded that this could be a step, whereas doing nothing would be worst (but that is a guess to those that felt that way).

I am happy for everyone that will be helped by the bill, but I am not happy with the way that individuals are losing more control of their choices as the government attempts to mandate monumental amounts of legislation to turn the country into something so massively different.

I have talked to people who already are being affected negatively and have explained that what is coming up for them is going to be worse. Now maybe there is something that will remedy some of that, I don't know, but I know that this is not what I consider to be a good example of a "representative government."

[LoveLife&Laughter]

They didn't "exempt" themselves.  Everybody who has healthcare insurance keeps the same, although prices are already going down, not higher like the right lies.  17% less according to Sunday's news.  Tune out the BS my friend and find out what you are talking about before parroting extremist talking points.

I'm going out to play -- see you later.

[ProblemAgain]

you really need to be more selective about where you glean your 'facts'

http://www.freedomworks.org/

a koch brothers organ....founded as an astroturf movement by dick armey and funded by essentially koch industries to lead the gullible into the arms of the right wing...

it has all the veracity of a glenn beck or an alex jones. 'facts' and 'truths' are partial at best if not completely false. and 'obamacare' is the newest whine to justify laying off employees for any reason while hiding the real reasons up to and including the outsourcing of call centers and manufacturing to third world countries

those jobs pointed to as being lost due to obamacare? they are attributing essentially all lost jobs to the health care reform..why not just say
'the nigger made us do it'?