Religious Right

[Madhatterat60]

Have we seen the last of the Religious Right as a political mover and shaker in this country?

[Judi]

I wasn't assuming, jacquin, I was asking a question. Also, I never stated that it was not within someone's rights to have no belief in God. You did not address the point I was making, however. Please show how the tolerance that is purported by the Left fits with the main focus of this thread? You guys aren't even speaking of a small, more verbal portion of the Christian movement, but of all those who believe in the Christian God.

I understand the angst against those who wish to tell you how to run your lives (kind of like liberals vs conservatives), as I do not agree with them, either, but to put down all those who are believers belies the staunch stand by the Left of their ability to tolerate others. As I've pointed out on numerous occasions, it is very easy to love, live with, and tolerate others, as long as they agree with you. The hard part is having those beliefs and feelings for those that go totally against everything you stand for. There's where the rubber meets the road, so to speak.

[Judi]

We all know there are "fringes" to every belief system, philosophy, race, etc. What I read above in different members' posts was an intolerance for those with a belief in the Christian God, not just those who are on the religious "fringe". BTW, in case you weren't aware, the liberal Christian has done just as much, if not more, to "subvert" Christianity than the "fringe" right-wing. (You wouldn't get it, though, and that's a whole different thread).

For instance, Grace Linda stated that for "people who have no formal education (or) are unable to support themselves and get the "american dream" , jesus is a quick fix". So, she is basically saying that the only people who would become a Christian are poor, uneducated people. I believe, as you stated, the late Ted Kennedy was a Catholic. I don't believe him to be poor or uneducated, so her words don't really ring true, particularly since most Christians have at least the USA-required high school education, and many, if not most, have college educations. BTW, Jesus (spelled with a capital "J" for the educated reader) is a long-term 'fix', not a short-term one. Jacquin seconds the idiotic and ignorant statement by stating, ". . .we all have the potential to hit that level of desperation..." Ahhh, tolerance at it's finest. These are examples just from this page. Should I refer to the previous one?

So, in answer to the thread question, "NO, as long as their are people in the world, there will be those who distort, misinterpret, and misrepresent the group(s) they believe themselves to be a part of, that includes the "Religious" right, with emphasis on "Religious". Religious people, from whatever belief system they say they come from, will always be after their own selfish agendas, no matter who or how many it hurts, and no matter whether it goes against the beliefs of the original group they think they are representing.

[Judi]

I may be applying my own filter, as I don't pretend to speak for anyone else. God (the Christian God) does NOT pit people against each other. People do that on their own accord. People can still have the same God, and at the same time disobey, misinterpret, misuse (thou shalt not use God's name in vain) the precepts of that God, and misinform others of that God. When she, or anyone, talks against that God, they are talking against the God of all who believe in that God.

If she's speaking of one particular person, or type of person, then she should be more specific, IMO. As I said to jacquin, call them "fringe", call them "aberrational extreme", but don't elude to all Christian fundamentalists as being in the same category as what you are calling "subversive". This is my opinion and, again, I don't pretend to speak for others.

In regard to how Christian liberals subvert Christianity, as I indicated in my previous post, that is a topic for another group and does not belong in a political group. I would love to have that discussion, though. Also, I believe it is a topic that should be discussed among Christians, and not with unbelievers. That has nothing to do with being uppity or condescending to unbelievers, but it would be like having to type of Muslim groups discuss their differences with Christians

[Madhatterat60]

"God (the Christian God) does NOT pit people against each other."

Really? Certainly some of His 'pastors' do.

"Lord, give us righteous judges who will not try to legislate and dominate this society. Take control, Lord! We ask for additional vacancies on the court." –Pat Robertson

Or isn't 'the reverend Pat' still on the television begging money weekly in the Name of Jeezus?

How about we tag one just a bit closer to home there, Judi?


"(T)he feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." –Pat Robertson

"I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband.

Not a feminist? Don't believe in equal rights for women in the workplace? Don't feel that your husband should dominate your household and that his every whim is your command? (Certainly the society where/when Jesus preached did, but that's another world/century!) Well hell, how about one that advocates murder?

"Maybe we need a very small nuke thrown off on Foggy Bottom to shake things up" –Pat Robertson, (Foggy Bottom = Wash DC.)

"You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability."

I'm sure Jesus is just SOOO proud of "reverend" Pat.

[Judi]

You have never given me a different name to use other than "liberal" to describe the "Left". Should you give me something else to work with, I will be more than glad to use it. Do I need to refer to all the names you have come up with for my particular groups?

I have read many of the things you have said about Christians in the atheist and other groups. I've not seen your disclaimer for your name-calling and insults, particularly when you refer to the whole state of Texas. The word "fundamental" basically means "basic beliefs". For you to even use the term "right", you are referring, basically, to conservatives. When you add "fundamentalists", you refer to those who have a specific, "basic and fundamental" belief in the Christian God (as Christianity is the main "religion" that is discussed in the USA). Hence, you insult and are intolerant of the majority of Christians alive yesterday and today.

If you, and others, are honestly speaking of the "fringe" Christians or religious people, then might I suggest using the term "fringe", not making pithy comments about their "lily white Jesus", "white-bearded-man in the sky", or other phrases that conjure up nothing but contempt for another group of people that are not to your liking. If you want me to not "fling" the word "liberal" around, then, like I said, perhaps you might give me another word or phrase that would adequately refer to a group of people on the "Left" side of the middle of the political agenda. I have no problem with compromise, and I hope (and believe) that you would feel the same.

[Westerly_2]

In trying to answer the thread's question, have we seen the end...? I have to base my belief on my life's experiences that there is never an end to strong emotions or ingrained beliefs at either extreme.

My concern is, to what use is Christianity being put, when a doctor is murdered in his own church. How say, one loves life, then snuffs it out under God's own roof?
And then, there's the matter of forgiveness and redemption, a closely held Christian tenet, and yet...people go back thirty years to damn a certain recently deceased senator. Is this the "Right"? You tell me. But Jesus broke break with sinners and washed their feet. He "palled around" with lepers and whores.

I don't know where this lack of the things of Christ is a coming from for a Christian.
(I'm sorry, I'm way off topic.) To get back to the question, no, there is nothing logical about religeous extremism in any form, and it won't die, because it's all about feelings and nothing about logic. In the clutch, fear and anger took residence in the brain before logic ever did.

[Judi]

Well, wasn't that nice, jacquin. Slobber, eh? Let me make it so very, very clear . . . I DO NOT appreciate what the far-right religious nut-jobs and sanctimonious, close-minded, Christian fringes have done, and are doing, to others and others' perceptions of Christianity. I am NOT proud of the many deaths that have been perpetrated, in the name of God, or in the name of Christianity, as a result of "religion run amok" (although Catholicism has a LOT to answer for in that regard). I probably have just as many, if not more, debates with Christians that picket, put up signs of aborted fetuses for purposes of shock, name-call, tell people specifically they are going to hell, etc., than I do debating or discussing with unbelievers.

Bottom line is, though, you may separate the fringe from the others in your head, jaquin, but as you put your angst against that fringe onto the written page, that distinction does not become obvious until a point is made of it by someone like myself. I appreciate that you do make that the separation of the two factions, yourself, jacquin, but there are many (atheist guru Richard Dawkins being one) that do not make that distinction and have no qualms about lumping all into the same pot.

[Judi]

Well, I got almost to the end of your first paragraph, and since it was so full of holes, venom and lies, I decided not to read the rest. I appreciate the willingness to have a discussion in a calm manner by others. You and Toby apparently don't get that concept. This is why I usually skip over your posts, and I will now continue to follow my own wise policy. Thanks, but no thanks, pacis.

[Judi]

Pacis, I'm going to do you and Toby a favor and leave the group. I don't need or want your type of discussions. It leads nowhere fast. You may stay and talk to yourself, though. Bye.

[Daniel Blattenbauer]

Judi, ever since I heard George Bush say he invaded Iraq because God told him to do it I have been somewhat concerned about people who claim to be Christians.