TBD on Ning

BeiYin: There is obviously a discrepancy between concepts and reality. This causes disappointment, frustration and a lot of stress in most humans. The high number of diseases, suicides and depressions are the result. Spiritual concepts about Love, harmony and Oneness and religious belief systems providing images about God and how to live to go to heaven, for sure give a certain frame in which people can live, but their own reality is different and giving effort in trying to live adapted concepts doesn't really work to make people fulfilled and happy. What's going wrong? Is it that humans need to wake up and realize that they are caught in a game with themselves?
Comment: I  don't understand your point here, do you mean that religion conflicts with how people live their life? That their religion does not fully benefit their life by giving them a belief from that they can gain a more positive attitude and world view?
BeiYin: No, that's not exactly what I mean. I said that there is a discrepancy between concepts and reality. A religion is a concept or you might call it a dogma, right? So this dogma includes rules and advises how one should behave and live. It gives a picture of reality and people make it as part of their self-image. Right? So far so good, now people know what to do and they feel some how good. They have a frame in that they can move and it gives them a certain security. But then there is the daily reality and then there are appearing conflicts because it doesn't fit to ones concepts and so the result is disappointment.
Comment: If that's your point, I totally disagree. Indeed there are religious demands, but most followers will take it as part of their commitment that they can never meet up to the standards of their religious rules. Religion is part of their life and gives them security and a background so that they can deal with reality.
BeiYin: It is not about standards. It is about the fact that established concepts inhibit to relate directly to reality. There is always the filter from the concepts how things should be and then the person is reacting and accepting or rejecting what shows up, but not being aware of it, only finding always a good reason for ones reactions, mostly giving the fault to the outside conditions or the behavior and action of people.
Comment: For example: A person feels totally lost and doesn't find sense in ones life. When this person finds sense in a religion, then this gives them peace and so this person can be happy. Christianity teaches self acceptance, love and hope. Becoming familiar with their belief people can then accept and follow the religious rules, for example giving up sins and growing stronger in their faith. They might also give up self-destructive habits and chose new ones.
BeiYin: Sounds good as a concept, but what about reality? Has there changed anything in tow thousand years? Is there more peace than before? No, there isn't. Are people more happy? For sure not. Look at the high number of diseases, the rising number of suicides, the extreme amount of divorces, abuse and crimes... "Becoming familiar with their belief people can then accept and follow the religious rules" Really you believe in this? Then look around. "Giving up sins?" How can people give up sins by following a 'religious demand'? Just go around the corner and observe what is happening... Self-destruction where ever you look: In life style, consumer habits, entertainment, relation ships and most of what people do.
Comment: Yes, many might not be aware of their self-destructive life style when in their present body - but, they can still gain a kind  of fulfillment because they were doing their best in following the rules of their religious concept.
BeiYin: Yes, people might gain a sense of fulfillment when they join a belief system and doing some effort to suppress needs that are showing up and that are not allowed by the rules of their dogma, but what is it they really have gained? Have they fulfilled their longing? Have they grown? Are they content and happy with their life? Do they relate to reality, feeling responsible to what happens and respond out of their best capability?
Comment: Are concepts and reality two different things? How can you prove reality to a person? Reality are concepts of our collective mind. What people perceive depends on their personal background and will not be exactly the same than how another perceives something.
BeiYin: I don't say that concepts and reality are two different things. I say that having concepts doesn't allow to relate to reality in an objective way because one receives and is interpreting every thing through ones established concepts that are working in ones unconscious background. Didn't Jesus say: "Become like children to gain the kingdom of heaven?" That is because children don't have yet concepts, they live more in the presence and relate in a more direct way. What would Jesus have said to your comments here? Maybe: "Oh you clever brave women, you are so good in your belief and what you have learned how to be a good christian, but forget about all this and become like a child or even better like a new born child and then breath the air and live without any contamination of sophisticated thoughts and dogmas..."
Comment: You seem to believe that religions are an obstacle to gain happiness, that's simply not true. People will always be in a game within themselves and they don't have an inbuilt reset button.
BeiYin: I don't see it like this, I observe it every day all around. People were trying to live their concepts for a long time and they were fighting and struggling, getting more and more frustrated and disappointed. Life becomes very stressful. Why? Because they are fighting against 'wings of windmills', as Cervantes in 'Don Quixote' has described it... Even having beautiful concepts, being disappointed enough, then life doesn't make sense any more. People can't find satisfaction and happiness. The discrepancy between the concepts of the collective mind that are supposed to give value to life and the reality of daily conditions and happenings are too obvious. Desperation is taking over. When you say that there will be always an ongoing game within ourselves then this is the most negative and destructive statement that is possible. Indeed there exist a 'reset button' and that is to free oneself from games, getting out of concepts and belief systems. Taking self responsibility and relating and responding out of ones own awareness. Going into a growing and healing process. That is the 'reset button'. Of course this is not done instantly by pushing a button. This is hard work, not because of the resistance and difficulties from the outside, but because of ones own established structure and the old way to hold on it, not wanting to let go what at least gave a kind of sense. No, one need to let go of worn out ways of thinking, even with the danger to fall into a void, where nothing gives sense... Then one might find something new. Something that doesn't need to be put into words to become a new concept. It will be a state of 'being' in which one will be able to appreciate the simple fact to be alive and this does not depend on conditions or any belief... Live your existence right here and now! Then you will be able to enjoy it and out of this will grow real happiness! Without any conditions! - - -



Tags: concepts and reality

Views: 40

Replies to This Discussion

"Can concepts (God) inhibit relating to reality?"


Maricel....It's more like, "When do they NOT inhibit relating to reality?"


Unless you think that telling people that a low pressure front colliding with a high pressure front, causing strong winds and a torrential downpour had all occurred because god was mad at a bumper sticker on somebodies' car, to be a rational, well-informed and factually-correct way of "relating the reality" of the storm.

I think many concepts can.




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