Worse than we thought, and getting worse!!!

[base2final]

Some in this group try to be supportive and blindly defend the ACA, even in the face of growing problems. Well here's a little more evidence that what is becoming factual is not what we were all told. My feeling is that if a few spokes in the wheel were broken, than why try to fix the entire wheel? Why not be honest with the American people unless of course that being honest would have stopped this law from being passed?

The left can try and deflect blame to the Republicans, but this law is 100% Democrat. Remember when Scott Brown was elected to the Senate from one of the most liberal states with the purpose of voting against the ACA? Harry Reid changed the number of yes votes needed to pass the law from 60 Senators to 50. Remember the Louisiana purchase? Remember the back room promises? Remember the total number of Republican yes votes?

Maybe the far left progressives in this group who are trying to defend this debacle know more than the majority of the Americans who from day one have been against this law. My guess is that they don't. They just don't have the balls to admit when something their party did is going bas. Can you imagine for one second the outcry if Bush had forced this on the country?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HEALTH_OVERHAUL_YOURE_CAN...

[exedir]

Ah, the tea party types are not Federalists, it was the Jeffersonians that want limited government, in fact, Jefferson wasn't against a good revolution once and a while, just saying....

[LoveLife&Laughter]

The extremist Right are not "Real Americans".

But our Special Forces are.

...and I suspect they've got their sights on y'all.

(try to think of Bin Laden et.al.)

[A4L]

Good question Lorouch.

Could we have another layer of social help without upending the present health care system? Seems possible. And make things more competitive. Where have prices gone down in things? It seems like prices go up where there are monopolies. When I have only a few choices of TV and internet providers it seems to be that I could have had cable at $35.00 a month a while ago, and now a days $150.00 would be average for cable and internet and phone. The internet has made some things cheaper. Amazon has made some brick and mortar business's fail due to their high overhead.

I agree that things seem to cost too much in hospitals, but again it's  monopoly. You are there and you will pay whatever we decide. Can I get my aspirin at Walmart? might be hard to do in your bed. When competition is eliminated prices can rise. Insurance providers are not in overwhelming numbers.

And it seems that they are going up due to the new regulations. So aren't many people now paying more?

HSA's seems like a good thing with tax benefits. I do see situations where pay is incomparably high. Like when someone gets $200K a speech maybe? And many others. I can maybe see setting a profit margin for insurance agencies, but not so keen on the limiting what kind of policies that they can offer to the effect that they are now forced to be much higher for everyone.

 And forcing people to purchase health insurance is not in line with securing our freedoms. A tax? Taxed for not purchasing insurance? Then what is it that can not be taxed after this? Not having a hybrid? Not bringing your own bag to the store? Where does it end? Nowhere?

[exedir]

This is complicated, and yet, again, it is complicated with complications and then there are politics and yes, certainly business, very big business at that.

So, it is always been and going to be a hard question to answer much less ask, health care for whom and at what cost, to the individual and to the country much less to society.  

We have tried a number of solutions, some larger and some smaller. the ACA is technically smaller than say, instituting and operating Medicare and Medicaid as matter of volume and size.  What it did do, ACA, was change some of the rules on which and how services would be covered by preventing the issuing of health care policies that do not do certain things, like not use pre-existing conditions and sex to underwrite policies.  That a policy had to have guaranteed issue and that adults under 26 living with parents were eligible to be under their parents policies.  That as such the policies to be offered under ObamaCare had to be community rated.  And that the 10,000 or so pages of regulations, rules, statutes and policies had to be complied with by those covered by what the law included, some of which are still pending, and still requiring court rulings.

So, it adds to the complexity at a minimum and gins up suspicion of what all this includes and means.  And yes, it is mess, it was always was going to be a mess and has lived up to that expectation.  Now as to the benefit, that is what time will tell, years actually, as to whether this model is going to work, which it probably won't, as it was passed in 2010, changes will be needed and consequences dealt with, none of which will be easy, cheap and probably require more changes.  

As to models, we have them all, from commercial and private insurance, to Medicare and Medicaid, the VA and military care, government provided and funded direct medical delivery clinics and institutions, public health efforts, charity care...there are few that have not been tried...and not have had to be changed at a minimum to perform.

[A4L]

Thought your response Exedir made much sense!!!

[Ioruach]

I suggest we now declare the problem solved and retire to the nearest bar for a couple beers.

[exedir]

Only for today...for tomorrow will come, even though the HealthCare.gov will be shut down again tonight, for repairs.

Tomorrow is election day, and as such, the pundits will be shifting through the ashes of burnt ballots to divine a trend and predict what will happen a year from now, or not. 

[A4L]

Think you have a great idea.

The camaraderie is a good thing!

I will have to at least stop by and get LLL a Starbucks. Maybe tomorrow sometime. :0)