TBD on Ning

What does this word "submission" mean to you? Does it mean " to love and - obey" - or will/did you have those words stricken from your wedding vows? (I did - I asked my intended if he would say them too - he said no way (!) - hence - stricken!) Is this word even in your life lexicon or vernacular? What does "biblical" submission mean to you, if anything? Is submission a religious ideology or an old mind set or something new and other?

This question is posed as the issue has been raised and is under a bit of controversy in one of our LFF's wonderful discussions in her "online dating" group entitled: "The Needs of A Modern Woman"

*Do you would you and if so how and why would you "submit" to your mate ( man or woman )? And if you submit, what must he or she do in return for such largess?

(All attempts at ribald good humour along with thoughtful input will be appreciated!)

* Not every member within the halls of "For Women Only" is heterosexual, so the question is posed to one and all.

Tags: equality, feminism, gender_issues, psychology, religion, sex, sociology, spirituality

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Replies to This Discussion

I love the concept of surrender over submission. To live within the confines of submission presents a power differential which doesn't work. Power needs to be shared IMO for a relationship to be healthy. One having power over the other begets resentment. But to be able to surrender to each other would be sublime. It signifies giving to each other which is always lovely.
I had a boyfriend like that in college. Very controlling, very domineering, very downright mean. Looking back, I can't imagine what possessed me to stay with him as long as I did. When I finally left him, I got a long way away from him. I went and studied in Europe for a semester, just to avoid him. That was worlds apart from the relationship I am in now.
Obey was stricken from our vows and replaced with respect (for both of us.) Domination is an equal opportunity activity at our house!
"Domination is an equal opportunity activity at our house!"
Compliment (Click Me)
TSD & I are wont to second that equation WS !
Our wedding vows:

I, ____ take thee, ____ to be my wedded husband/wife, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, 'til death do us part. With this ring I thee bind, with my body I thee worship, and with all my worldly goods I thee endow. This is my promise to you.

We figured that would cover pretty much all bases, no matter what our mood, mindset or proclivities. ;)

But...we certainly do have an awful lot of fun with A's sporadic proclamation "I am the godly head of this household!", replies to which have included:

--The WHAT?
--If Boyo says so.
--No. It's Wednesday.
--If Charlie says so.
--Really? Cool.
--Is that a full-time job?
--Of course you are, dear. Now, please take out the trash.
Oh, how refreshing! You two will never be bored, I think...

Domination... submission. These words had little to do with my marriage. It was not perfect but it was a pretty good partnership. We managed to work things out with discussion and compromise and humor and I usually got what I wanted. But so did he. :-D

As far as sex goes, those ideas had nothing to do with it. It was always mutual. (Yes, Dogdreams, well said, surrender rather than submission.) I would feel very uncomfortable about moving into a relationship with anyone who had a need to dominate. Or be dominated. I can't imagine that it would go further.
Bored? I can't see it. We're too committed to making this fun. :D

As for what goes on in our bedroom...that's private--except to say that it's consensual and it invariably includes shrieks of delight and large dollops of laughter.

(I probably ought to mention that my husband is the co-chair of the National Organization of Men Against Sexism (www.NOMAS.org), which has been taking a stand against sexism, racism, and all forms of discrimination for over 30 years.)
and how chez! back in our early days, i told my husband that i would not have anyone follow me, nor would i have anyone lead me, but would only have someone that would walk beside me.
btw, we had a humanist wedding, and love, honour and obey were not in our vows. (otherwise it would have been a big "HELL NO!") ;>)
Yeah, I'm not sure exactly what it means. Wear your hair the way you're told? Fold the towels just so? Have dinner on the table at a precise hour?

I think of it and live it like Maria, only she words it so much more eloquently than I ever could.

But like LaFille says, it could never go in any vows, or down on paper. You do what you want, you go where you want, you live your life, you have fun together. Love, honor, and respect, that sounds good. Submit? Who in their right mind would swear to that?
Gal - my thoughts now about your statement "(I did - I asked my intended if he would say them too - he said no way (!) - hence - stricken!)" would be - NO marriage. You know the old saying, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. However, if something else takes place then that is appropriate to strike this phrase.

However, what is said as marriage vows doesn't really matter if one or the other both choose to ignore them and do their own thing. My daughter and her intended had beautiful vows - I will support you in your dreams (something to that effect) and then he asked for a divorce because her dreams (which he knew of before they were married) were too expensive for him. THAT is what should have been worked out - and not by a divorce.

My last relationship ended because I (dare I say it?) asked for equality in having an orgasm. He refused to do anything to make our sex life more enjoyable for me. Then he went on and on about me being cold, frigid, sexless, blah, blah, blah, and I, being the nice person I am, didn't retaliate by saying he was a bad lover and that is why I didn't have orgasms with him.

So, anyway, to answer the original question, submission would not be in my marriage vows, if I were ever to get married again, because I will not have a Christian/religious ceremony.






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