I knew this was coming

[mercerquietman]

About the time I retired, my employer was initiating health screenings for its employees much to a chorus of objections from many of them. As part of this, they were questionning and determining your tobacco use. Tobacco users were goingto start paying higher premiums. There was a great deal of suspicion about motives for these screenings. Was it just to confirm who the smokers were or woudl this lead to somethign else? Specifically, concerns were raised about going after the obese next.

Well, Aurora Healthcare is now doing that exact thing with its employees with incentives to its non obese employees in the form of a $13 credit on premiums every two weeks.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/185961952.html

[mercerquietman]

My stance on this is odd considering I think moves to ban smoking have gone off the deep end when you start including open air stadiums and privately owned restaurants (by the way, I have never smoked). I also vehemently oppose big government telling us how big our sugary drinks can be and abhor feel good legislation mandating that restaurants must make healthy choices in foods available that cause them to lose money as no one buys them. But my reasons there are for personal liberty. If someone wants to shove four big macs in their mouth and wash it down with a biggie coke, I think that is their choice, not the government's.

But here, I see absolutely nothing wrong with Aurora’s stance. The impact of obesity on healthcare costs is undeniable. I have seen this firsthand in the past ten years with a loved one of mine. He retired, became sedentary and lived the high life paying little if any attention to his food intake. He became morbidly obese gaining twenty or more pounds annually. His health steadily declined and his visits to the doctors have become routine. His health care costs (the vast majority of which are covered by insurance) over this time is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Just about every health condition he has is the result of or was exacerbated by his obesity, knees, back, COPD, AFib... I firmly believe if he had just stopped at being fat rather than morbidly obese, he would have had a fraction of the health issues he has had and as a result saved well over six figures in the cost of treating him over the past ten years. The cost of this incentive over ten years to Aurora on the other hand would have been a little under $7,000. I don’t see it as penalizing the obese but rather rewarding those who take SOME responsibility for their health by recognizing they are saving the company considerable healthcare costs. So why would a union object to an incentive being offered? They would want everyone to get the incentive? It’s no longer an incentive then, is it? I would also point out it’s not as if they are rewarding marathon runners here. A BMI of 30 is not particularly healthy. It is still overweight, just not obese. While I support the right of obese people to have their big macs and giant sodas and lead sedentary lives, I support the right of their employers to offer incentives to those who do not engage in those behaviors in an effort to save healthcare costs. Speaking selfishly, I resent having to subsidize the healthcare costs of people who engage in unhealthy lifestyles in the form of higher health insurance premiums to me. If there is anything not fair here, that is what’s not fair.

[Grandma Helen]

Steve, there's a vicious circle with this stuff.  People who have health problems haven't been able to get health insurance on their own until Obamacare.  I have worked for small companies for a long time and they don't always offer health insurance.  That could be why the young woman was using the ER for not feeling well.  As for incentives to not have unhealthy habits, sometimes there are other things in play besides eating unhealthy etc.  I agree that many times that's the issue, but not always.  Sometimes it could be medications.  I have personally been very overweight for a very long time.  It started with me having to take steroids for asthma.  I'll be honest, I also contributed to it with my diet.  I have since lost over 100 lbs, but it took a long time.  I am now into walking and exercise, but for a long time I thought people who exercised were crazy.  Now if I had a way to get to a gym, I'd join one.  For now I exercise in my living room and walk when the weather permits.  It took a long time to get me motivated and I slip from time to time.  I now seem to be more motivated, but I also know it wouldn't take much to get back into those bad habits.  I'm retired, but I don't think it's an employers job to be the food or health police. 

[TornadoWoman]

Helen, a lot of us who exercise ARE crazy!  Our last run of the season, last Saturday, it was raining hard and quite cold.  We ran our 6 miles anyway.  The weather doesn't look too good for the Houston Half-Marathon this coming Sunday, but at leas we'll be prepared for it!!

[Serenity]

MQM, A BMI is only a diagnostic tool that has any relevance in limited situations.  Body builders have a whacked out BMI.  I prefer to look at body fat composition.

[mercerquietman]

I'm aware that body fat composition is certainly a better measure of health, but that is what this company decided to use. It's a heck of a lot easier to determine than body fat composition.  I do think it has relevance in far more than "limited" situations and think it's use here is certainly reasonable.

[Serenity]

I don't feel well is often the opening statement that ends up with another diagnosis.  My daughter is half dying from something and she says, "I don't feel good." Meanwhile she has four fractures and three dislocations. So maybe we'd be better off not judging what you cannot know. How do you know what her insurance was.  And what if she was working poor - doing 80 hours a week at menial jobs and still no insurance. Fie.  Universal health care is the answer. 

[Serenity]

To be fair, fewer than 25% of Americans smoke. Why should I be forced to sit next to a smoker in an open air stadium.  That is akin to saying it is okay if I throw my booze on someone - or if I get sick from the smoke, no one will be upset if I vomit ON the smoker.  

What I see happening is that if you put yourself in a high risk group you pay more.  Just like bad drivers pay more for insurance. So, either clean up the driving record or fix the obesity and save money - and one's life. 

[TornadoWoman]

Getting sick from smoke reminded me of an article I just read yesterday.  "Thirdhand" smoke is also dangerous, just like "Firsthand" smoke and "Secondhand" smoke - it's the contamination that remains after a cigarette has been extinguished.   This article tells us why we need to avoid it.

http://www.bottomlinepublications.com/content/article/health-a-heal...

[Karin M Fichtner]

I'd like to comment....but keeping past similar conversations in mind..............I decline.

[Grandma Helen]

TW, good luck on Sunday.  Hope the weather holds up for your run.  MQM and Steve.  This healthcare was running amok until we had Obamacare.  I have asthma and diabetes.  For a long time I couldn't get health insurance that didn't cost more than my rent.  At one point I was paying over $900 a month for health insurance.  Once Obamacare kicked in the state of MD had a high risk plan, but the price dropped to about $325.  I am waiting for October when I turn 65 and can get medicare.  For a while I worked where I had health insurance that was through a small group an it was costing me over $600 a month.  It's a very difficult situation.  It's never going to be cheap, but it needs to be affordable and available to all.  I don't understand why we can go to a system like medicare for everyone.  I'll probably not live long enough to see it happen, but I wish I would. 

[TornadoWoman]

My salary was quite low working for the State of Texas before I retired, but at least the state provided good health insurance coverage. Since I'm retired and waaaaaaaay "Over the Hill" now, I have Medicare as my Primary insurance, and my secondary insurance is United Health Care (which changed from Blue Cross recently). About the only thing I have to pay for (and believe me, I've had LOTS of surgeries and procedures, etc.!) is my prescription drug co-pay. PHEW!

[Shadowman]

True, the Affordable Care Act is an improvement but we will never compete with other countries economically and healthcare costwise unless we go to a Universal Single Payer system or as you say a form of medicare for everyone. Medicare itself could use some simplification.  I don't want to get to be 80 years old and have to sit down and make out checks for Part A, Part B, Part C, Part D, etc...  I definitely do not want to go back to what some see as "the good old" days without any safety net.  The Affordable Care Act or Obamacare as some call it will at least address the free rider issue more than any other proposal.