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I had a former TBDer (who shall remain nameless) look at my art on my site and declare it "craft." I wanted to kick her ass, but it did get me thinking about the difference. I mean, it brings us back around to "what is art" in a way, but is craft a subset of art? Is craft a kind of art? Do you have to be formally educated in art to be an artist or can an intuit artist like me call themself an artist?

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My University Art Prof would say that it is not art if it has function. (Other than aesthetics). I sometimes think it is really just a class differentiation. It is art if it is viewed to be so by the upper class - craft if it belongs to the hoi polloi.
Just a random question here - why would we consider "craft" something lesser than art? Both require creativity and craft requires skill (I'm not sure "Art" does.) If craft has use/utility and beauty then it should be valued above art that only has the latter!
Well, my artistic friends would probably kick my ass if they read this, but I just had the thought that craft might be the technical ability to produce or especially reproduce work. Art might be the infusing of the artist into whatever is being done. I had a stunning example of the difference a long time ago. I was walking through the music building at a Midwestern university and I heard a pianist playing with an abundance of craft, but not really making music. I stopped outside the practice room and listened. All the notes were there, played at the right time, with appropriate intensity, but the result was devoid of life or inspiration. I felt deeply sorry for this person.

On the other hand, sometimes a musician with less skill and technical prowess can be very "musical." The same could be said for most genres of art I can think of at the moment. I remember a Native American shield that was bedraggled and imperfect, yet radiated immense vitality and power. Craft or art?
Vernon, I think you are getting at the meat of the matter to a certain degree. Perhaps the point at which art and craft diverge is the point at which technique and soul do. It all becomes extremely esoteric and personal at that point, and the final arbiters of the distinctions between art and craft are those who are willing to part with their dollars to support the creators of these two genres.
If we look back in history, both art and craft were highly regarded - with both requiring extensive apprenticeships and intensive and years-long training to master. Some were able to do this with more success than others in both fields.
We tend to know the names of the artists more than of the crafts persons - but only up to a point. (We do not know whose hands painstakingly created the Flemish tapestries (did you know that dyes they used sometimes took up to 65 processes to achieve the desired color?) We do, however, know the names of the artists of that period - but not the names of that artists' apprentices, who produced the bulk of the work attributed to him) Was Vermeer more of an artist than a Flemish tapestry designer or weaver, or than his apprentices; or was he simply a better politician?
Today, is someone like Dale Chihuly an artist or a craftsman? He works in a traditional 'crafts' medium, but his work is world renowned, claims top dollar, and he displays in museums worldwide. (and his apprentices claim they do much of the work attributed to him...)

I made my living as a 'craftsperson' for over 10 years - and this argument raged on the show circuit for the entirely of that time. It is not an easy thing to answer, and not made easier by the rules of these shows, but I have come to believe it comes down to the intersection of technique and soul. ya gotta have both to really be an artist.
Sounds like an excellent response to me. The age-old argument as to what is art itself has beleaguered me since I picked up my first pencil and attempted my first drawing. Not aware in the beginning how deep the divisions went among those who portend to know what is and is not art. Is it a judgement call or are there quantifiable indicators by which you can decide? Original, handmade work to me is as much art as anything else. However, to me, mass produced replicas don't rate as either art nor craft but rather objects designed artistically. The original was the art/craft.
If a distinction has to be made, I agree with you, Vernon, that the difference between art and craft lies more in the inspiration, passion, and execution than the medium. I think of a "craftsman" who lovingly shapes a wooden spoon, functional and sturdy, but with an eye to the grain of the wood and the curve of the handle and the shape of the bowl. That person, to me, is no less an artist than Baselitz or O'Keefe.

On the other hand, a painting, a sculpture, a fugue, a ballet, or a wooden spoon, no matter how technically perfect, created without passion and need and inspiration...a work that is juiceless and static...isn't art to me.
Man, this is way too deep for me. I enjoy painting w/oils and sometimes acrylics. This is art to me. Crafts drive me crazy when I try to do them. I seem to get too agravated with the process. I really do believe that like beauty, art is in the eye of the beholder. Simple as that.
Man... tough question.

I hate having my skill referred to as a "craft" or "hobby", but I am proud to be considered a "craftsman".

I would think true artwork would run the risk of getting thrown out of an "arts & crafts" show, but I have had my stuff actually be quite a hit at such fairs.

and I do consider my stuff ART

Got no answers for ya.
"Art vs Craft" will be bandied about until there no longer is art or people to critique it. Like WS, my profs have stated the same--functional is not art. As a grad student in sculpture, I teach fundamentals of ceramics. I love teaching, and have found this to be a really great class because I will have students from all disciplines, not just art. It really brings something interesting to the mix. But I do try to warn them--this is not necessarily MY point of view, but you will run into the whole craft/functional/art question "out there." Just be prepared for that. I work a lot with ceramics, which, by definition of the material, is intrinsically conjoined with craft and function. Therein lies a real challenge to raise the material to something "higher."

I recently finished my undergrad--on hold from the 70s. I struggled with trying to apply input from profs and other students that I received during critiques. An "upper" class mate saw my struggle and finally told me: "Just...do your art." I can't tell you how many times I have returned to that advice.
That's great advice, Robyn (although I still think it is okay to poke your head into the stars and philosophize! GRIN!)
an artist seeks craft in the process but not the product. the consumer seeks craft in the product (the kn knowledge that the artist 'did a good job' painting the picture, or whatever the media). This leads to a constant tension for the artit and consumer all the time.

If any professor taught that art has no 'function', then they forgot that the Sistine Chapel was a commissioned work by the pope in which the person crafting the painting had to produce a piece that expressed the story of the creation of man as taught by the pope - pure function.... and the beautiful potraits by Velasquez?????? Were they just his choice or was he commissioned to paint portraits of the royal family as the appointed court painter? It embarrasses me to consider how the 'educated' teaching class is so useless. They are the reason this unimportant tension exists on a philosophical and a social class level.

I create things that are either useful to me or useful to others. The ones that are useful to others are paid for by others. The ones that are useful to me I have to try to sell to others.

Art is an expression of beauty. Beauty is ephemeral, inconsistent, fickle, and vain. Craft is an expression of skill. Skill is rigorous, dedicated, driven, and constant. Both ought to be highly valued and not compared but added together. Art does not exist without craft and craft does not exist without art. Each balances in varying degrees in relation to the final object. I happen to love Crane urinals for their beauty. They are, by and large, highly useful. I think Marcel Duchamp would agree.
hmmm... not sure I agree with the "functional is not art" statement.
So these are not considered art? I think the designers who toiled over their design would have a big fit if they heard that.
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