What made you a Libertarian - TBD2024-03-28T23:06:42Zhttps://teebeedee.ning.com/forum/topics/what-made-you-a-libertarian?feed=yes&xn_auth=no"Maybe we could have a discus…tag:teebeedee.ning.com,2013-10-11:1991841:Comment:16169282013-10-11T06:34:17.770ZA4Lhttps://teebeedee.ning.com/profile/Ben
<p>"Maybe we could have a discussion about what is going into creating this polarity. Who is benefiting from it? I have my ideas about it."- Baia<br></br><br></br>I have ideas about it as well. <br></br><br></br>My logic is about using common sense and trying to be honest about things and true to myself.<br></br><br></br>I know for a fact, and I think that you would agree (because it is obvious) that there is so much information out there that is either not exactly true, or excessively false. <br></br><br></br>So much is…</p>
<p>"Maybe we could have a discussion about what is going into creating this polarity. Who is benefiting from it? I have my ideas about it."- Baia<br/><br/>I have ideas about it as well. <br/><br/>My logic is about using common sense and trying to be honest about things and true to myself.<br/><br/>I know for a fact, and I think that you would agree (because it is obvious) that there is so much information out there that is either not exactly true, or excessively false. <br/><br/>So much is contradictory. <br/><br/>If you listen to much of what the left says, it generally concludes with nearly 100% of what the right says and believes in and even how history is remembered as being wrong and/or bad. <br/><br/>And conversely on the right it is very close to an opposite view and understanding as to analyzing the left. <br/><br/>What has to be a fact, is that both opposite views cannot be 100% correct. <br/><br/>It is surely possible that one side alines with more reality on specific events and at times the other. Life is just not generally arranged so that one person or group is always pure and righteous and the other with only all evil motives all of the time.<br/><br/>One thing that makes a whole lot of sense to me is that whether left or right, there are people that make huge profits and/or enhance their power through the art of strategically moving and acting during the upheavals reported by the news that keep much of the electorate at odds, in conflict, and more importantly distracted and decidedly diluted while we battle against each other and stay separated through our identifying with the labels that we side with.<br/><br/>As long as the people stay divided and filled with conflicting "truths" we are little threat to either the bad actors in government or the crony's in the private sector that lobby and collude with them.<br/><br/>So what goes through my mind is the hope to remind people to keep in mind what we share in common with others and not only focus on what we have differences over, with the goal to keep open dialogs. <br/><br/>I know I do not know everything, and I am guessing that many others are somewhat in the same boat. So if we can hear and see more than just our one perspective, it shouldn't hurt us. What is true will still remain true even if we get a perspective that is poorly founded.<br/><br/>I am very much in love with the little I understand about our Constitution and Declaration of Independence and the thinking and lives of our founders.<br/><br/>The idea of Freedom of speech to me is so important! In countries where one must fear to speak the truth because the government may destroy such a one who does, should never be the case here if the Constitution be upheld.</p> It didn't used to be this way…tag:teebeedee.ning.com,2013-10-10:1991841:Comment:16164342013-10-10T22:11:00.365ZBaiahttps://teebeedee.ning.com/profile/JaniceTakashima
<p>It didn't used to be this way, A4L. </p>
<p>Maybe we could have a discussion about what is going into creating this polarity. Who is benefiting from it? I have my ideas about it.</p>
<p>I think that television has created a false notion in the public about what reality is. "Reality" programming is inexpensive to produce and brings in a lot of money. News broadcasting no longer has journalistic integrity behind it. It has become sensational and opinion-based. Political reporting is…</p>
<p>It didn't used to be this way, A4L. </p>
<p>Maybe we could have a discussion about what is going into creating this polarity. Who is benefiting from it? I have my ideas about it.</p>
<p>I think that television has created a false notion in the public about what reality is. "Reality" programming is inexpensive to produce and brings in a lot of money. News broadcasting no longer has journalistic integrity behind it. It has become sensational and opinion-based. Political reporting is irresponsible, lazy and dishonest. Politicians are playing to the emotions of their audiences and not deliberating seriously over the responsibilities of their offices to their constituents.</p>
<p>Campaign financing is used mostly for buying broadcast time. Who benefits from that?</p>
<p>I am painting with a broad brush here. There are responsible reporters and honest politicians and entertainers who don't pretend to be other than who they are. But they are rare and unrecognized by the masses who have voted in our present government.</p> Not sure that I understand y…tag:teebeedee.ning.com,2013-10-10:1991841:Comment:16162902013-10-10T04:18:35.824ZA4Lhttps://teebeedee.ning.com/profile/Ben
<p>Not sure that I understand your response funesthememorious.<br></br><br></br>First off a "military dictatorship/police state" is incongruous with an ideology that seeks to have government stay out of our business. <br></br><br></br>The latter example of little to no laws whatsoever is a fair consideration, but there is a difference I think between libertarian ideals and just having no government or laws whatsoever. I am not familiar with Chile under Pinochet and I know nothing of Bachmann other than…</p>
<p>Not sure that I understand your response funesthememorious.<br/><br/>First off a "military dictatorship/police state" is incongruous with an ideology that seeks to have government stay out of our business. <br/><br/>The latter example of little to no laws whatsoever is a fair consideration, but there is a difference I think between libertarian ideals and just having no government or laws whatsoever. I am not familiar with Chile under Pinochet and I know nothing of Bachmann other than Alinsky like attacks on her that prove her actions to be anything substantially significant.</p> Thanks for your response Baia…tag:teebeedee.ning.com,2013-10-10:1991841:Comment:16164622013-10-10T04:02:45.602ZA4Lhttps://teebeedee.ning.com/profile/Ben
<p>Thanks for your response Baia. <br></br><br></br> I am looking for forums that can talk about this stuff, where people can be on different sides of the spectrum politically, but try to agree to find what common ground that they have and seek more to understand why others may see things differently than themselves. <br></br><br></br>To me I like to look at these problems just like I would take a look at a piano that needed repairs. If different people have different approaches to fixing it, but they share…</p>
<p>Thanks for your response Baia. <br/><br/> I am looking for forums that can talk about this stuff, where people can be on different sides of the spectrum politically, but try to agree to find what common ground that they have and seek more to understand why others may see things differently than themselves. <br/><br/>To me I like to look at these problems just like I would take a look at a piano that needed repairs. If different people have different approaches to fixing it, but they share the main goal of making it better, their differences do not have to be offensive. <br/><br/>In our present political system it seems that the political power plays are disproportionately important in regards to solving our real problems. <br/><br/>It seems that many of us would agree with the fact that there is much polarization and not much in unifying activities being actively sought. <br/><br/>It would not be as much of a big deal if it did not affect over three hundred million people, and more.</p> There are only two possible e…tag:teebeedee.ning.com,2013-10-09:1991841:Comment:16160242013-10-09T23:01:17.553Zfunesthememorioushttps://teebeedee.ning.com/profile/funesthememorious
<p>There are only two possible end results from a libertarian type society/government : a right-wing military dictatorship/police state invested in stamping out all leftist thinking, then appropriating the country's wealth for themselves - see Chile under Pinochet and the present United States or having central authority break down completely as power localizes into the hands of local criminals and feudal/tribal warlords with little compunction about abusing and terrorizing the local population…</p>
<p>There are only two possible end results from a libertarian type society/government : a right-wing military dictatorship/police state invested in stamping out all leftist thinking, then appropriating the country's wealth for themselves - see Chile under Pinochet and the present United States or having central authority break down completely as power localizes into the hands of local criminals and feudal/tribal warlords with little compunction about abusing and terrorizing the local population - see Somalia.</p>
<p>In college I was a member of the Students for a Democratic Society ( SDS ), a libertarian organization, a lot of our ideals were similar to the Black Panthers. Once you gain a bit of maturity and real world experience you do come to realize it is an empty racist ideology that often is accompanied by theocratic overtones ( see Michelle Bachmann ) </p>
<p></p> Welcome, A4L. I'm grateful t…tag:teebeedee.ning.com,2013-10-09:1991841:Comment:16160922013-10-09T17:37:16.200ZBaiahttps://teebeedee.ning.com/profile/JaniceTakashima
<p>Welcome, A4L. I'm grateful to see this discussion revived.</p>
<p>We are definitely living in interesting times. Congress seems more interested in wasting money than spending it to actually benefit the health and well-being of individual citizens (as opposed to corporate citizens). The grand gesture of shutdown then the surprise that actual people are being affected. </p>
<p>Last fall, I traveled in Asia and while in VietNam I had the opportunity to talk with Vietnamese people who had…</p>
<p>Welcome, A4L. I'm grateful to see this discussion revived.</p>
<p>We are definitely living in interesting times. Congress seems more interested in wasting money than spending it to actually benefit the health and well-being of individual citizens (as opposed to corporate citizens). The grand gesture of shutdown then the surprise that actual people are being affected. </p>
<p>Last fall, I traveled in Asia and while in VietNam I had the opportunity to talk with Vietnamese people who had survived the turmoil of war and changes in government. I asked one man what he liked best about the way things are now in his country. He said that it was the freedom to think and believe what he chose. Not an economic value, to be sure. The road into town was lined with parking lots of heavy equipment being leased out for construction and heavy earth moving activities. Roads and buildings were being built and people were crowding the central market where products of all sorts were being offered for sale with no apparent restriction. This is still a "communist" country which we remember as being the battleground for my generation. I criticized my government for it's decisions to send my classmates to fight and die there. We left in defeat and now many return as tourists. </p>
<p>What you say about the definition of slavery made me think about all this. I agree that what libertarians say about what they believe now seem different from how we recall them when we were younger and exploring our political beliefs. I think of modern Libertarians as more like the grasshopper in the fable of the grasshopper and the ant. I don't mind paying taxes when they go to support constructive programs but I resent their being wasted in phoney "shutdowns", or in foreign aid that merely supports US industries of war and destruction, or in super-enrichment of robber barons of financial industries.</p>
<p>I am grateful that I have lived simply for most of my life. The freedom to choose how to think is probably my most valuable possession. Last year was the first year in my adult life that I received back my entire IRS withholding. I say that meant I paid no taxes, but that is not entirely true. It was held interest-free for that year, and then returned to me. I have no idea how much it earned in government hands. It was chump change compared to the amounts we hear about in the news going as bonuses to CEOs of failed financial institutions or as subsidies to giant farming corporations. </p>
<p>I am grateful for this opportunity to vent. Most of the time I don't say much. There is much in life that I take on faith. There is good coming out of our efforts. I turn to history when I feel too frustrated and I am encouraged to see that overall, good is still winning. IMHO.</p> I am generally libertarian, a…tag:teebeedee.ning.com,2013-10-09:1991841:Comment:16158092013-10-09T06:31:19.516ZA4Lhttps://teebeedee.ning.com/profile/Ben
<p>I am generally libertarian, and found that out as it occurred to me that much of my feelings about life were in line with what I was told libertarians believed quite a long time ago when I was young. <br></br><br></br>I have always been acutely unhappy with people who seemed to want to control me or others. <br></br><br></br>I don't mind being controlled in the sense, when you are a "willing partner."<br></br><br></br>It is the intense unpleasant feelings that I have when someone crosses that line of trying to…</p>
<p>I am generally libertarian, and found that out as it occurred to me that much of my feelings about life were in line with what I was told libertarians believed quite a long time ago when I was young. <br/><br/>I have always been acutely unhappy with people who seemed to want to control me or others. <br/><br/>I don't mind being controlled in the sense, when you are a "willing partner."<br/><br/>It is the intense unpleasant feelings that I have when someone crosses that line of trying to control apart from my will. <br/><br/><br/>How is that not one definition of being a slave? Being forced to do something against ones will?</p> Hey Robbie, I am new around h…tag:teebeedee.ning.com,2013-10-09:1991841:Comment:16158012013-10-09T06:23:35.444ZA4Lhttps://teebeedee.ning.com/profile/Ben
<p>Hey Robbie, I am new around here. This discussion looks old, but I was interested in what you said. <br></br>The fact that you have been on more than one side of the spectrum made me think to engage you in a conversation.<br></br><br></br>I grew up liberal democrat oriented and open minded towards socialism and communism, and have found myself to now feel more in line with those that are Constitutional originalists. <br></br><br></br>I too agree with your point about us being closer to losing our freedoms than…</p>
<p>Hey Robbie, I am new around here. This discussion looks old, but I was interested in what you said. <br/>The fact that you have been on more than one side of the spectrum made me think to engage you in a conversation.<br/><br/>I grew up liberal democrat oriented and open minded towards socialism and communism, and have found myself to now feel more in line with those that are Constitutional originalists. <br/><br/>I too agree with your point about us being closer to losing our freedoms than ever in this country. <br/><br/>I came to this website hoping to find people that were able and hopeful about having productive conversations that increased everyone's knowledge, insight, and understanding. <br/><br/>I think that the concepts of the founders that focused on trying to establish a government that would help to ensure the inalienable rights of it's citizens and personal freedoms and liberties was a monumental accomplishment, that knows few equals. <br/><br/>I think that we have drifted way off course into a government now that is not only very inefficient and characteristically "unrepresentative" but also very contrary to principals that served to underlie and influence the minds of those that came together to establish this "Union."<br/><br/>If you are interested in sharing, please let me know of your thoughts. And anyone else. <br/><br/><br/>Thanks much!</p> No fear of that, Bob. I have…tag:teebeedee.ning.com,2012-04-05:1991841:Comment:13653152012-04-05T18:17:46.839ZBaiahttps://teebeedee.ning.com/profile/JaniceTakashima
<p>No fear of that, Bob. I have been with the underdog many times in the past~~~sadly.</p>
<p></p>
<p>No fear of that, Bob. I have been with the underdog many times in the past~~~sadly.</p>
<p></p> @ Slim and Baia..........afra…tag:teebeedee.ning.com,2012-04-05:1991841:Comment:13653132012-04-05T18:06:04.650ZBob Stepphttps://teebeedee.ning.com/profile/BobStepp
<p>@ Slim and Baia..........afraid ya'll are just gonna go with who ever is on top at any given time....:-)</p>
<p>@ Slim and Baia..........afraid ya'll are just gonna go with who ever is on top at any given time....:-)</p>